Why the fuck is a page about fonts using 50% CPU?! Is it mining crypto or something?
this post was submitted on 09 Nov 2023
297 points (95.1% liked)
Programming
17484 readers
128 users here now
Welcome to the main community in programming.dev! Feel free to post anything relating to programming here!
Cross posting is strongly encouraged in the instance. If you feel your post or another person's post makes sense in another community cross post into it.
Hope you enjoy the instance!
Rules
Rules
- Follow the programming.dev instance rules
- Keep content related to programming in some way
- If you're posting long videos try to add in some form of tldr for those who don't want to watch videos
Wormhole
Follow the wormhole through a path of communities [email protected]
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Average website experience in 2023
That's just modern web dev
I really hope Chrome gets its shit together and stabilizes the chrome.processes API during my lifetime so I or someone can make an extension that autokills or at least warns you about these shitty pages.
No no you see it's the website owners that are the issue because they didn't build the website specifically for chromium browsers /s
They're pretty fonts and they're released under SIL Open Font License 1.1. I dig it.
I like all of it, except for that awful "texture healing". Imagine having words above & below like
i=mins
w=maxs
But the m's just slightly don't line up because the top one is wider than the bottom one. I'd feel like my editor was gaslighting me 🤢
Here's your code example in the editor. I don't personally think the difference between the 'm's is super noticable. But what did strike me a lot more is the difference in height between the two 'i's in the first line. I think that difference is pretty bad.
It looks like it's not an actual height difference, but the smaller width makes the second i look significantly smaller than the first, also implying a lower height.
True, they are the exact same height. Holy optical illusion, Batman!
I suppose this is part of what makes font design so difficult.
Welp, another reason I will absolutely not be using glyph-streching or whatever Microsoft called it.
thanks for rendering that! and yeah that height difference is really weird. That almost seems like a bug.
Also Idk if the ='s make the m smaller or bigger.
If the streching is so small as to be unnoticable (and I agree it's pretty subtle) then I also don't really understand the benefit.
If the streching is so small as to be unnoticable (and I agree it's pretty subtle) then I also don't really understand the benefit.
Typically, the idea behind this sort of design is that it should be unnoticeable. The motivation is that, with other monospace fonts, the differences in character width, along with the inconsistent spacing and line thicknesses are both noticable and distracting. Some of this badness is avoidable, and this is what this font attempts.
and yeah that height difference is really weird. That almost seems like a bug.
I've been informed, (and had to double check because I didn't believe it,) that the two "i"s are actually the exact same height. The first looking larger than the second is an optical illusion. Font design is hard.
load more comments
(1 replies)
They would still line up, wouldn't they? Or am I misunderstanding how the texture healing would work... Would they not take the same total amount of space?
Each line is the same total length but the "m" in "mi" would be wider than the m in "ma"
That texture healing looks super nice. Is that something fonts can just do or does it require special editor support?
It's basically a different type of ligature - it is standard to OTF fonts, but requires ligature support in your editor/terminal. Just need to enable ligatures and/or enable specific ligature sets. See https://github.com/githubnext/monaspace#editors or maybe https://wezfurlong.org/wezterm/config/font-shaping.html for the general procedure in a supporting terminal.
load more comments
(3 replies)
Texture healing works by finding each pair of adjacent characters where one wants more space, and one has too much. Narrow characters are swapped for ones that cede some of their whitespace, and wider characters are swapped for ones that extend to the very edge of their box. This swapping is powered by an OpenType feature called “contextual alternates,” which is widely supported by both operating systems and browser engines.
Contextual alternates are normally used for certain scripts, like Arabic, where the shape of each glyph depends on the surrounding glyphs. And they are also used for cursive handwriting fonts where the stroke of the “pen” might have different connection points across letters. Texture healing is a novel application of this technology to code.
basically fonts were already capable of using alternate versions of characters based on their nearby characters, so they used that for these fonts to allow for seemingly-dynamic sizing/spacing
It's an OpenType standard feature but the font rendering system has to support it and the app has to enable it. The page has a link to instructions for enabling it in VS Code but I have no idea about support status on different OS and desktop environments. I could see it working on webview on Android fwiw, I'm guessing it's either well supported in general or at least by browsers.
load more comments
(1 replies)
And sadly one more font I will never be able to use due to missing support of non-latin characters.
Sadly some features are nice.
You'd think after that page of "texture healing", alignment, etc. etc., Microsoft would actually make a fully, complete font first and foremost...
load more comments
(3 replies)
I love the idea of using multiple font faces at the same time while looking at code. I wonder if (hope?) terminals will one day soon support switching fonts with control sequences.... Would be pretty awesome!
not sure about escape sequences just yet, but Kitty gives you insane control over font rendering https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/conf/#fonts
load more comments
(1 replies)
Hmm nothing really jumped out at me at first glance, I don't mind the ligature stuff, but also love monospace for the aesthetic.
But I am glad they're experimenting with this stuff. Ive always wanted a sarcastica font, we're almost there with sArCAsm. But it's a pain to write :)
load more comments
(3 replies)
I still like Fira Code better. These are really nice and if there was a fast and easy way to implement fonts to my syntax highlighting maybe I'd give it more of a spin, but that seems really annoying to set up and baseline I don't find any of these easier to read than Fira.
I don't think I've ever felt the urge to apply an alignment chart to monospace fonts of all things, but Xenon and Radon are basically lawful and chaotic evil respectively.
Technically, font healing is a neat idea. It fails for text that does not meat its requirements, i.e. two 'm' next to each other. Depending on the characters around them, this might create two different 'm'.
This is unavoidable, of course. The only solution are proportional fonts. So font healing is a nice idea. It creates a more consistent spacing at the price of less consistent glyphs. Whether one likes this compromise, is a matter of taste. I personally lean towards consistent glyphs, but I did not try it for an extended period.
I'm not sure I'd consider that "failing". At first glance, I don't mind the distinct "m" glyphs being juxtaposed. But perhaps I'd find it annoying after a while.
load more comments
(3 replies)
load more comments
(3 replies)
Neon and Argon: Seem okay. They're really quite similar though. It's like the designers couldn't decide which they liked more and so just decided to release both.
Xenon: It feels alright. The horizontal serifs give everything a more uniform look, but you can also get that with any other serif font.
Radon: Uh, no thanks. It's like someone took the weird letters from Dank Mono and said "what if we did that but for the whole font?"
Krypton: What if we just took OCR A and added ligatures? Alternatively, "Floating Point Precision Error: The Font"
Overall, none of these are compelling enough to make me want to try them. I quite like the Texture Healing feature, but it's not enough to make me want to move to it.
Also, using multiple different fonts in one code file sounds horrendous.
Radon, the "handwriting" one, seems like if someone wanted to have Comic Sans but for code.
Comic Code is a thing and it's 10/10. It's proof that handwriting style fonts for code is possible.
load more comments
(4 replies)
load more comments
(1 replies)
The fonts are nice but I absolutely hate the "copilot voice" text moving around idea, it's absolutely terrible to read.
I don't think the intention is that Copilot voice would be animated, I think they just had a dumb idea to highlight it that way in the demo. Look closely, and you'll see the Copilot voice is the only text there written in the "Krypton" font. The animation indeed looks godawful.
I hope you're right
Neon is the only one that I think is passable. The rest are a bit too stylized for code. The texture healing is a great idea though, I would love for that to be common.
Edit: Actually I've changed my mind. Texture healing would introduce too much variation in similar texts. If spacing is a problem then maybe the font is simply no good.
Yeah texture healing is poorly thought out and will break way more things than it "fixes". If your font needs that, go in and fix the damn font. A solution to a problem no one asked for, thanks Microsoft!
Damn, these are pretty good.
I've been using Iosevka for quite a while now which is very tall and thin by comparison to most fonts. These are wider, but that makes them more favorably compare to Consolas, still overall my favorite font for the console (Cascadia Code looks weird with Antialiasing IMO).
Going to give Xenon in particular a week to try it out. Love a programming font with serifs.
There's Iosevka Extended
Ooo... I like the purple one (Krypton). Very space-aged.
Looks nice, I'll try it today and see how it goes. At least MS doing something good for a change...unless they added spyware to a font!? LOL
load more comments
(1 replies)
I'm still loving comic code.
they look nice, I especially like Krypton, but to be honest cascadia code was already great. If it ain't broke, don't fix it
There's even caskaydia cove for nerd fonts.
I cant believe they gave the cool name of Radon to the shittiest font of the group
Looks nice, but it fucks up the ligatures in a lot of functional languages other than pipes |>. Poor <$>, >>=, *>, >>>, and all their friends
view more: next ›