this post was submitted on 07 Jul 2023
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You Should Know

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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
 

Why YSK: These email tips are helpful for people who struggle with boundaries and want to communicate more assertively.

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[–] [email protected] 322 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Some of these are good, some are just needlessly assertive nonsense. Especially the two where it's actively refusing to acknowledge fault or apologize for it, which is standard PR crap. Refusing to apologize and instead saying "thanks for your patience" is what I expect to hear from my ISP when they miss their scheduled install, not from a coworker.

There's nothing wrong with being a normal human being that is capable of admitting their own shortcomings. If never saying sorry means "being a boss" then that explains why there's so many sociopaths as CEOs.

"Hope that make sense?" Vs "Let me know if you have any questions."

The latter is saying "here's the explanation, figure it out, bother me again if you can't". The fromer, while poorly worded, is being helpful, actively attempting to make sure the person understands before leaving them to it. It's both a kindness and doing your due diligence.

[–] [email protected] 105 points 1 year ago

Seriously.. and oftentimes just combining both works better. "Hey sorry I'm late, I appreciate you all being patient" or "Hope that all makes sense, but please feel free to ask any questions if they come up"

[–] [email protected] 75 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I’m so happy to see a sane comment at the top here. So many of these are just stupid and border on alpha male don’t take not shit or admit fault crap.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I think it goes the other way too. For people that tend to apologize too much, even when it’s not their fault, mixing in a “thanks for your patience” is a good way to balance it out a bit.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm torn. I feel like admitting guilt and owning up to your failures is a virtue, but I'm not sure the rest of the world agrees with me

Neurotypical enough to read body language, neurodivergent enough to never understand why

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[–] [email protected] 97 points 1 year ago (4 children)

My personal ones for corporate use:

  • Never use I when you can use we.

  • Even if you're the only one working on a project, never refer to it as yours. Always refer to it as ours.

  • Don't apologize, present solutions.

  • Don't say "read my fucking email again you goddamn illiterate moron", say "As previously noted in our communications...."

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The last one is particularly important if you like to eat.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

I will also attach old emails rather than repeat myself.

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[–] [email protected] 76 points 1 year ago (5 children)

To be honest, I find most of these passive aggressive and patronizing.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (7 children)

I agree, but, you'd be surprised how many people find many of these seemingly innocuous distinctions offensive (if only a little bit). For example, I was once chided by HR for saying 'no problem' during a seemingly friendly discussion.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Seems like a toxic work environnement to get chided for so little..

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

If someone has a problem with "no problem," they have a problem.

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[–] [email protected] 73 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Half of it is fragile CEO ego reply

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[–] [email protected] 72 points 1 year ago (3 children)

"When can I expect an update" makes you sound like a micro managing POS

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago

Yeah, there are some good ones and some terrible ones.

Also reading the whole thing, it makes it sound like you should never apologize. I see it becoming real toxic real quick.

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[–] [email protected] 66 points 1 year ago (1 children)

God I hate forced formality like this. This is the kind of shit Gen Z and millennials are rebelling against and I'm all for it. It is stupid for us to encourage people to be themselves and then to expect them to act like a completely different person at work, including the way they talk.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You may see it as forced formality, but these tips were created by a person with ADHD to help others who struggle with setting boundaries, especially with time. The creator is a Millennial comic artist. It helps me be more myself when I respect my schedule and don't over-apologize, but I can understand that not everyone sees it the same way.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I think you can do all of the things you said without being overly formal about everything! For reference I have ADHD too. ☺️

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[–] [email protected] 60 points 1 year ago (4 children)

"It'd be easier to discuss in person" means "I don't want a record of this because it's either illegal or shows my incompetence".

Any meeting that they want to talk about in writing should ALWAYS be recorded.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago

Also, carefully laying thoughts out in text for 40 minutes takes a lot less time than explaining it meaningfully to multiple people, probably more than once if it was important enough. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

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[–] [email protected] 57 points 1 year ago (1 children)

YSK, the person that embraces all of these, as written, is RIGHTFULLY perceived as an assholes by their peers.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

Some of them are great and can even make things less awkward for the other person. The "small error" one for example. The "I have an appointment" one is necessary when talking with higher ups in big companies who completely devalue your needs. But some are assholish, yeah.

[–] [email protected] 53 points 1 year ago

I greatly prefer some of the "wrong" ones. Not everyone needs to talk like a corporate robot.

[–] [email protected] 51 points 1 year ago (2 children)

All of these are really good examples of writing a good email, except the bottom left one.

The "wrong" example is perfectly fine, and the "correct" example is pretty rude unless you're a project manager addressing your team. Even if you were a project manager, it's still pretty rude.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago

I totally agree, bottom left one screams of project manager that scheduled too much in your sprint and they're pressuring you to finish everything asap

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[–] [email protected] 50 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think it definitely depends on your relationship with the recipient. While I do think most of those are better options, I wouldn’t say they’re necessarily what you should write.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Agreed, it is not always prudent to be overly assertive.

For example, I may be working with someone else on a project that is not time sensitive, but for my own planning I like to stay up to date on progress. I absolutely would reach out to someone with a "Just checking in, how are things going with X" because, well, that's honestly all I'm doing. Checking in.

Meanwhile, saying "When can I expect an update?" is almost like saying "I don't think you're going fast enough and I'm getting impatient," which sends the wrong type of message, makes me seem like a hardass, and might impact the quality of work if the other person suddenly feels rushed.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 1 year ago (6 children)

In a good workplace, none of these fucking matter...

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Take those tips with a grain of salt, as this sort of conventional politeness strategy is heavily dependent on culture, situation, and sometimes even individual*.

I predict that those tips would work poorly with people from cultures where negative politeness ("don't burden the others") is valued over positive politeness ("show appreciation towards the others"). This is fairly common in East Asia for example, but even here in Latin America I got a few people rolling their eyes at "biztalk" like "obrigado pela paciência" (thank you for the patience) over a simple apology.

In special, I can picture the centre advice rubbing a lot of people the wrong way, as it's basically the writer lifting a burden from one's own shoulders (struggling to word something) by creating a burden to the reader ("I expect you to be available offline for a meeting").

*if anyone wants to dig deeper into this subject, check Penelope Brown and Stephen Levinson's Politeness: Some Universals in Language Usage. It's a bit of a technical read for Linguistics (more specifically Pragmatics), but I got plenty laymen who love the book.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This is a fantastic comment, thank you. I think it's fascinating that there is such a mixed reaction, and your explanation certainly helps me make sense of it.

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 year ago (4 children)

For me personally, receiving a ‘just wanted to check in’ feels less aggressive than ‘when can I expect an update’

Otherwise I agree with the rest

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago

Agreed. The former sounds like "How's it coming?" and the latter sounds like "What's taking so long?"

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Some of those "wrong" ones would be fine for instant messages like Slack or Teams.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

Totally agree. I think for me these are more about increasing confidence and assertiveness in communication rather than just better wording.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Its not that simple. Its ok to apologize sometimes. But not so apologize every fucking time like I do for every minor slide. Also I can see the usefulness to just make the shot call instead of staying 1h writing that message/email. Others are ok too.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago

I'd never say 'always happy to help' because sometimes I'm actually not, particularly if a client is a pain and badgers me constantly. I don't want to invite more interruption

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

Some of these are great. “Could you do” takes the burden off the other person to propose something initially, and suggests respect for their time. “I will need to leave for” begs forgiveness rather than asks permissions, and since you are communicating it, it gives others the opportunity to correct your decision. These are examples of saving everyone time while still communicating them. Being too nice can be a time waste, like saying hello and then waiting for a response before asking your question.

Some of these take away the autonomy of the other person though, and that’s shitty. “When can I expect an update?” is one of those. It would be better to express this in terms of what you need and why, like “I am reporting to X person at noon tomorrow on this, could you give me an update before then?”

Of course, whether you say “just checking in” or “when can I expect…”, if you have no good reason (micromanaging is not a good reason) for checking in then you’re just being an asshole.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)
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[–] Keeslinp 16 points 1 year ago (4 children)

The thank you for your patience one has always rubbed me wrong. There's honor in apologizing in my opinion. I do like the making a mistake one though and I've tried to adopt that mentality when I'm working with QA on something I've merged. I want them to feel good about finding the mistakes and I want to avoid an adversarial relationship. I've learned that I get way better tickets from QA if they like how I treat them. Treat them like valuable experts and they'll act like valuable experts.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Non-native speaker here. What are the disadvantages of being straightforward? In my native language, it is considered more efficient and polite to be to the point. I have worked with Americans in the past, and I have noticed that they are not straightforward.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

Being straightforward is fine, but often times being straightforward comes with an air of superiority. It's fine in a boss setting, but you should be careful giving commands to people who don't answer to you as it shows a lack of respect. People just want to be treated nicely and feel like they have a choice.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

Improving my work emails is 99% of what I use ChatGPT for.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I have very mixed feelings about this. I feel personally attacked, but also might reference this moving forward

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

Nobody really wants to spend time reading long emails at work. Make it short, direct, and polite works best.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, I can tell why this is from adhddd.com, it's all about assertiveness. People with ADHD in general (including myself, to an extent) have trouble with being assertive, so most of the phrases in this chart try to change a meek or mild-mannered response to a more assertive one. I think part of the struggle of life is finding balance because while some of these are generally improvements, others are generally worse, and the difference will depend on the tone you're going for and the person that you're sending the email.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Some of these come across dickish

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I never open email. Work is so much easier.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

While most of these are a good rule of thumb, I disagree with 'Always Happy to Help.' > 'No Problem.'

'I'm Always Happy to Help' is a fine response, if you're actually willing to make your time available for the recipient at the drop of a hat. Sometimes that's called for, but I would only reserve it for a few very specific circumstances. I also don't see an issue with saying 'no problem' most of the time. There are situations where something a little more formal is called for, but 90% of the time 'no problem' should work imho.

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