this post was submitted on 05 Oct 2024
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Programming

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[–] [email protected] 63 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 58 points 2 months ago (1 children)
<?php
declare(strict_types=1)

😏 😁

πŸƒβ€β™‚οΈπŸ’¨

[–] Kissaki 8 points 2 months ago

πŸƒβ€β™‚οΈπŸ’¨

The dash emoji. Always looks like a fart.

[–] Dhs92 51 points 2 months ago
[–] [email protected] 50 points 2 months ago (3 children)

With no context, this could be an honest attempt to learn about different tools, a thinly veiled set-up to promote a specific language, or an attempt to stir up drama. I can't tell which.

It's curious how such specific conditions are embedded into the question with no explanation of why, yet "memory safe" is included among them without specifying what kind of memory safety.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago (18 children)

Yeah, arguably the only answer to this question is Rust.

Java/C#/etc. are not fully compiled (you do have a compilation step, but then also an interpretation step). And while Java/C#/etc. are memory-safe in a single-threaded context, they're not in a multi-threaded context.

[–] starman 8 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)
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[–] FizzyOrange 46 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Rust for now, by a wide margin. But I'm following other languages that I think have the potential to surpass it, including Vale (promises way more than it delivers currently), Koka, Hylo, maybe Lobster.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)
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[–] [email protected] 33 points 2 months ago (2 children)

That is a very specific subset

[–] sus 30 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Garbage collection is still allowed, and technically JIT languages are still compiled so it really isn't that restrictive

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

Not that specific tbh, most newer native languages these days are compiled and memory safe (Rust, Swift, Go, Kotlin Native, etc)

[–] [email protected] 30 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

As others have said, Haskell and Rust are pretty great. A language that hasn’t been mentioned that I REALLY want to catch on, though, is Unison.

Honorable mention to my main driver lately: Purescript

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 2 months ago (4 children)

C# is good too. If you havent heard of lobster you should look into it.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago (10 children)

Sad I had to scroll to the end to see this.

Ocaml is brilliant and has the nicest type features. It's almost like Haskell but more approachable imo.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Ada, hands down. Every time I go to learn Rust I'm disappointed by the lack of safety. I get that it's miles ahead of C++, but that's not much. I get that it strikes a much better balance than Ada (it's not too hard to get it to compile) but it still leaves a lot to be desired in terms of safe interfacing. Plus it's memory model is more complicated than it needs to be (though Ada's secondary stack takes some getting used to).

I wonder if any other Ada devs have experience with rust and can make a better comparison?

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 months ago

Hands down, Rust πŸ¦€

[–] AsudoxDev 15 points 2 months ago
[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 months ago
[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 months ago

People don't understand that JIT languages are still compiled, JIT literally describes when it's compiled.

That said, F# and/or OCaml.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 months ago

I started learning Go about 3 months ago and it quickly became one of my favorite languages. It feels like C with a bunch of Python niceties thrown in. And performance isn't super critical in my work so being garbage collected is fine with me.

[–] KindaABigDyl 12 points 2 months ago

Rust and Haskell (I think Haskell counts)

[–] UFODivebomb 10 points 2 months ago

Scala 3 native. If the compiler was faster I'd be even happier. Curious to try Ada

[–] ICastFist 10 points 2 months ago

Nim. Small compiler, small executables, easy to understand (except the macros, I still can't get my head around them).

FreePascal. Yeah yeah, Pascal's dead, etc etc, but it being so verbose and strict certainly help programmers (or at least me) keeping things somewhat tidy.

Also shoutout to V

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago
[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

After months of no practice, I forget quite a lot of stuff about them, regardless of language; therefore, none

EDIT: None of them is memory safe, that is

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago

You mean... except Ada?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

Crystal, but only because I’m a full time Ruby on Rails (and sometimes Hanami!) programmer.

It’s fantastic, and I had an excuse to use it at work when we needed to gather PHP Watchdog logs from a MySQL database and format, output them to STDOUT in a Kubernetes environment. (This was necessary for our log monitoring tools expecting data in a standard way, AKA not connecting to a database. πŸ€¦β€β™‚οΈ)

I know there are perhaps better options out there (Go, Rust, etc.) but from a Rubyist’s point of view Crystal gives you that β€œflow” from working in a beautiful language but with the performance boost of compiled software.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago
[–] MajorHavoc 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Python with MyPy.

(Almost any language can meet those criteria, with enough shenanigans.)

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

But that's not compiled, not to binary at least.

[–] MajorHavoc 8 points 2 months ago

But that's not compiled, not to binary at least.

Well...sort of.

(Everything is weirder than it seems at first glance.)

[–] cinnamon_tea 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

You forgot that beauty - "undefined behavior"!

Memory-safety can guarantee only so much safety! C++ can still blow up in your face, even with all the alleged memory-safety built into C++, thanks to all the UB traps in C and C++.

Rust is the closest language that has no such "gotchas".

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

Kotlin is nice

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

C++ with -Wall -Werror, and no pointer diddling.

[–] FizzyOrange 17 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Its definitely best to try and avoid raw pointers, but even if you try really hard I found it's not really possible to get a Rust-like experience with no UB.

Even something as simple as std::optional - you can easily forget to check it has a value and then boom, UB.

The C++ committee still have the attitude that programmers are capable of avoiding UB if they simply document it, and therefore they can omit all sanity checks. std::optional could easily have thrown an exception rather than UB but they think programmers are perfect and will never make that mistake. There are similar wild decisions with more recent features like coroutines.

They somehow haven't even learnt the very old lesson "safe by default".

If I wanted memory unsafety I think I would consider Zig instead of C++ at this point.

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