this post was submitted on 08 Oct 2023

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How do you feel about TypeScript? (lemmygrad.ml)

submitted 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) by [email protected] to c/programming

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Specifically, do you worry that Microsoft is going to eventually do the Microsoft thing and horribly fuck it up for everyone? I've really grown to appreciate the language itself, but I'm wary of it getting too ingrained at work only to have the rug pulled out from under us when it's become hard to back out.

Edit: not really "pulling the rug", but, you know, doing the Microsoft classic.

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[–] [email protected] 43 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Maybe Im reading the vibe wrong but to me, it seems like when it comes to the programmer/sysadmin/poweruser side of Microsoft, they seem pretty good in terms of not being total shit. Their "normie" facing side though seems hella shady though. Things like ads in windows, the speculated subscription model for windows, office 365, one drive spam.

For example, things like vscode, WSL, winget, power tools, the new console app, powershell, typescript, opening up .net to native cross platform. All these things are pretty sweet and seem like something they wouldn't be interested in doing.

It almost feels like there are two Microsofts right now and they are at odds with each other. So yeah, I guess enjoy it while it lasts, but always be ready to drop them like a sack of potatoes.

[–] atheken 22 points 11 months ago (5 children)

Like I said in my other comment, I think people tend to lump all of MSFT's activities into the same bucket. DevDiv has always seemed pretty decent, and I am usually reminded of this comic when people talk about MSFT's "shady" activities.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Github has been kinda getting weird lately. They added a "for you" feed, ads for copilot, and the front page is super middle-managery.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Yeah, the Copilot ad in the source viewer smacks of desperation.

[–] bnjmn 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Idk, I actually kind of like the "for you" feed. I've discovered some interesting projects on there that I wouldn't have otherwise

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I dont think it has any place on a developer tool/workplace platform. Algorithmic feeds are the first step towards enshittification. If they had a "trending repos" page, it'd be fine, but they're hijacking people's work flows to show (potential) ads.

[–] bnjmn 2 points 11 months ago

Yeah, I get that. I'm on sabbatical RN, so my GitHub usage is purely personal. Having your work feed hijacked is a different story altogether

[–] RonSijm 40 points 11 months ago

do you worry that Microsoft is going to eventually do the Microsoft thing and horribly fuck it up for everyone?

I'm not really sure what you have against Microsoft, or what "Microsoft classic" you'd be referring to...

In the last 10 years or so they pretty much moved everything C# related to Core, cross platform and open source. Even the decision making for the language is "Open source" - Microsoft is not really behaving the same as the Microsoft from 2000...

Soo, I don't really know how they could possibly fuck it up. They might add more and more features you might not like, but you could just choose to stick to an older version of the language

[–] [email protected] 36 points 11 months ago (4 children)

It’s open source. Anything is better than JS.

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[–] atheken 25 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

Everything is temporary. If we were talking about a niche language, I might worry a little bit that it could just lose momentum and die. But TS is a juggernaut. The only way typescript “dies” is if JS integrates enough of its features to make it redundant.

Besides that, if Oracle managed to allow Java to continue to grow and flourish, I have confidence that MS can do at least that well. I also think lumping all of MS’s products into the same boat is a mistake. They have been pretty good stewards of their languages for decades.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Everything is temporary except for people's opinion on Microsoft.

The company is spending a ton on supporting developers, tools, and open source projects but every time they get mentioned people just hark tired lines of past ill deeds.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I think people should in general put as little trust as possible in corporations. Ensuring your tools, language and platform are as free as possible is a good idea.

Just look at the problematic situation for VS Code extensions by Microsoft, which are non-free.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I can agree with the goal but sadly the corporations have already got their claws deep in the tech stack.

Facebook control React. Google has its hands around Chromium, Android, Go, Angular and I'm sure dozens of others. Then of course Microsoft now own npm, GitHub etc. You're making your life very difficult if you entirely avoid corporate entities.

If we don't give corporations credit when they do run projects well then there's no incentive for them to not go full on capitalist greed and destroy them.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

I mean if they didn’t want a shit reputation, they shouldn’t have done those past ill deeds.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

I actually drew that same Oracle comparison. They've made the occasionally bullshit effort, e.g. the API stuff with Google, but otherwise Java is just kinda Java. Fair point.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago (2 children)

The rug pull is google's forte

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Yes, MS's standard operation is to evolve the thing until it's completely hostile to your intentions, but not explicitly enough to justify a tool change for management.

They are currently in the "devs wanted" mode, it will probably be at least a few years before they change into "fuck you, pay me" mode again.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Ya "rug pull" isn't exactly the best description but I figured people would know what I was getting at, ha

[–] Tyfon 12 points 11 months ago (16 children)

I'd like to point out that TypeScript is a superset of JavaScript, so if anything goes wrong with it, you can just remove the type information and you'll have regular JavaScript.

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[–] onlinepersona 9 points 11 months ago (3 children)

It's nice, but it would be great if JS were replaced by WASM.

[–] RonSijm 5 points 11 months ago

Well since this is a Typescript / Microsoft kinda thread - there are replacements.. You can use C# with Blazor (from Microsoft)

And you can also compile Go and Rust to WASM (probably some other stuff as well that I'm not aware of)

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

But then reversing sites will be so much more annoying

[–] onlinepersona 3 points 11 months ago

Eh... https://github.com/WebAssembly/wabt

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

No, I'm glad that "now that wasm exists I can do web development in any language" isn't thing yet. The web would get even more clumsy than it already is. I'm glad that when I visit 5 links I don't have to download 10 different runtimes each time.

[–] onlinepersona 2 points 11 months ago

10 different runtimes? WASM what do you mean? It's byte-code for the browser. It's not like Flash or Java applets that required an external program to run.

[–] lysdexic 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

FYI, there's a TypeScript community in Lemmy.

[email protected]

I'm sure that any non-trolling/flamebait discussion over TypeScript is welcomed in there.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago

Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn't work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: [email protected]

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Regarding "doing the Microsoft classic" whatever that means... I don't believe in judging a company by what they did in the past. They should be judged by what they actually do now and in the future. So far, they haven't done anything bad. And anyway they've been good stewards of recent products that they've taken over (GitHub for example).

As for TypeScript itself... well my opinion is language choices should always be done on a case by case basis. So far I have never personally encountered an individual case where TypeScript is the best choice. They do exist though, so I won't hold it against anyone if they choose to use it.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago

TS is open-source, so if they do I'm certain that there will be a fork available within moments.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

Its an improvement over plain js, but we say "you cant build a castle with bricks made of shit" the shit is javascript. Undefined errors are there using TS...

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

I knew I remember something shady happening with .NET some years ago with dotnet watch, but welp that was pretty recent. Here’s a blog post that collected a lot of happenings and strung em together in a single view. Fear-mongering? Perhaps, but that .NET incident left a really bad taste in my mouth that reminded me that MS hasn’t really changed.

https://ghuntley.com/fracture/

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