That's right "industry execs" — you just need to turn down the romance by 40% and the sex by 15%, add 50% more friendship and 25% more adventure, control for the desired level of political correctness, add just the right variety of behavioural feedback loops, and you'll have a maximally profitable game.
this post was submitted on 22 Feb 2025
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maximally profitable game
See, it really is just an algorithm that can be nailed down perfectly, and I've got an entire floor of statisticians and market analysts that agree it'll make me berjillions!!!1!!
Lpt: they're also telling me more statisticians and market analysts will help boost my numbers too! Jackpot!
-an executive, somewhere, in nearly every corporate office
Just because you really enjoy golf doesn't mean you want every movie to have a half-assed awkward golf game stuffed into it.
Also, everyone plays golf differently and someone will watch a pro take a swing and so try it themselves, only to fail awkwardly and in public. The lessons to be learned are misconstrued as golfing lessons when in fact it's just an exciting story about how hard that kind of shot really is. Folks don't seem to understand that a story isn't giving directions but advice.
When there isn't a need, there isn't a reason. And egregious golf is gross.
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You’re starting on the wrong end.
People want games that the devs care about making. Whether it has sex or friendship or romance or relativistically-accurate jiggle physics.
People don’t know what they want until it’s in front of them, but devs know what they wanna make.
I think you hit the nail on the head with those points.
I've seen 5+ clones of Papers Please. I doubt that if you surveyed people describing the mechanics that they would be interested especially if Papers Please never came out.
For the original Halo they surveyed people who played who pretty much universally described the AI on the harder difficulties as being significantly "smarter". In actuality the only thing changed was enemies health pools and damage output and it was identical AI.
Gamers usually have a holistic experience with the games they are playing. There's definitely a place for user feedback to work, but devs don't look at a game the same way that people playing them do. Asking people who don't know how something works for feedback will give you perspective, but it doesn't necessarily lead to informed design decisions.
"I've seen 5+ clones of Papers Please. I doubt that if you surveyed people describing the mechanics that they would be interested especially if Papers Please never came out."
I think this is a great example. You can't distill things down to a formula because these things exist in conversation with each other. An example that comes to mind is the game "Not Tonight", a Brexit themed Papers Please clone. Mechanically, it does very little to distinguish itself from papers please, but narratively, that's sort of the whole point: It being a clone specifically leverages the energy of "Glory to Arstotzka" to satirise the UK's institutional racism.
Surveys don't capture that games like this aren't just clones of Papers Please, they're actively in conversation with Papers Please
Big mainstream games that are heavy on sex, like Baldur's Gate 3, are a recent phenomenon.
Heavy on sex? Just which mods did the author install?
It's fairly accurate isn't it? Every single companion (bar Minsc and Jaheira - though the Jaheira romance was cut content) lusts for you with the uncomplicated ferocity of a hormonal teenager, some after having exchanged barely a sentence or two with you (looking at you, Halsin). There is a bear fucking scene, Mizora wants you for some reason and hell, you can even bang a god damn mind flayer.
The bear-fucking scene will always be my answer to things like this.
You can't look at BG3 and go "yup, wholesome family fun for all ages"
Yeah, but you don't HAVE to fuck the bear.
Joking aside, if romance and sex aren't your thing, you as the player have control in most games to just not do those things.
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You can romance and have sex with pretty much anything with a heartbeat in BG3.
Yeah there's some romance, but there's barely any sex. You can only romance one character at a time and there's like one short cutscene per character, with some being a fade to black, in a 100 hour long game.
When was the last time you saw a game that was more than that outside of porn games and maybe dating sims? The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Cyberpunk 2077.
I always think of this kind of stuff when these kinds of polls come up because they're always by big corporate companies who put the most shallow of these themes in. People want this stuff like they want strong female leads: they want stuff that actually puts the effort in to make it good, not half-baked content just to maximize market reach or that one gay side character with one line of dialogue mentioning his husband who never actually appears in the movie.
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There's not a bunch of full frontal nudity or raunchy sex scenes, that's true.
But the game is shamelessly horny. All characters were designed to be maximally fuckable and they're all desperately tryna fuck. The sexual tension is palpable and several of the MC outfits wouldn't be out of place at a sex party.
Don't get me wrong I wouldn't call the game softcore porn by any stretch, it's just... canonically horny. Which is perfectly fine.
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bg3 was literally one of the biggest games of the year....
also the sims 4 has been going for years
Hades was also HUGE and I find it hard to believe it was mainly for the gameplay as even I, a gameplay purist, have always been drawn in by Supergiant’s storytelling.
The romance was the worst part of BG3, imo.
Too forced, every dialogue option is either slightly flirty (at least) or just telling them "fuck you and die".
Even when you say you just want friendship and avoid the most flirty options, it won't stop the game from trying to throw you in a romance. I hated that.
Yep. It did depend on the companion a bit, IIRC Shadowheart and Astarion's romances wouldn't be triggered unless the PC picked the flirty dialogue. But then there were some companions who would pursue the player. I hated how I couldn't just be Gale's Bro, and Halsin is just plain creepy.
Gale has a problem where he interprets interest in his backstory as romantic interest. Which is kind of realistic, but no one wants to be on the receiving end of that in real life or in a game.
Like bro, put your dick away and tell me some gossip about Mystra.
The upside I guess is that a lot of cis straight men got to experience how uncomfortable unwanted advances are.
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that's only true because most of you motherfuckers do robotic gamified romances that don't feel natural, heartfelt or interesting.
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I know it's anecdotal, but among my students (12-18 y/o), dating sims are extremely popular. Probably the most popular genre after battle royal games. I would definitely consider dating sims romance games.
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As usual big business trying to figure out a cookie cutter formula to repeatedly make billions in profit. But games are creative, not formulaic.
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Maybe one day, someone in charge of making video games will ~~figure out~~ remember that compelling, unique, decently challenging and rewarding gameplay is the actual fundamental component of a video game, and that everything else is important, but ultimately secondary to that.
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Who cares what teens want?
They don't have any money.
Is that why no one cares what I want? Because I don't have any money? 🤔
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Actually. Sometimes it is. The actual problem is that you're trying to figure it out at all. If you're trying to engineer the perfect product, it will always be a shit game. Good games come from passionate developers who have an idea, not from board meetings and focus groups.
Half-assed sex scenes (no pun intended) are probably worse than ones that are well done.
I still think a lot about one of the beats in a DA:I romance. But like... all the ones from DA:O were kind of bad. But also the one I played in DA:V was so PG-13 and sterile it wasn't any fun at all.
all the ones from DA:O
You underestimate the power of my crush on Morrigan.
I think that you can just give them gifts until they're horny for you is like the quintessential example of poorly done video game romance.
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This feels like such a non issue because games and movies these days have basically zero sex appeal or romance
It was a pleasant surprise that you could romance people in BG3
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A romance story is good if's not half-assed and a game doesn't depend on it. 16-bit RPG's did it well.
Now, I like a good romance here and there. Who doesn't?
That being said, games like Sonic 06 are very good examples of why romance isn't welcome in some places
Oh really. And what do you think he's collecting all those rings for?
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I as a video game enthusiast do not want my character to experience romance. It doesn't happen in real life the way it is portrayed in media, and it's fucking boring seeing it over and fucking over again. Gimme tragedy, gimme a problem I can solve, a mystery, or a war to fight. But romance, and sex, have not a damn place in those things. Developers of apparently every damn media have gotten it drilled into their heads that we want to read, watch, play thru, and otherwise experience their mental masturbation. Well I for one, don't fucking want to experience it at all. Gimme a story, and if you can't do it without pointless sex scenes then you don't have a fuckin story, you have a story about fuckin.
I dunno. problems, mysteries, and war aren't usually portrayed realistically in video games, either.
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It's always been this way.... Are people finally realizing that fan service is cringe?
Romance in video games is fun, yeah, but it's usually just something extra. It's rarely the main focus and I'm hard-pressed to really imagine how to make it the main focus without making a gooner game. Usually romance/sex is sort of the cherry on top of an otherwise good game.
Been saying this for a long time now. Romance in video games is about as batshit-cringy as it gets and is a tremendous waste of time that could have been used to add meaningful content or fix stability issues/bugs instead.
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This came up, I want to say last year? In regards to movies and TV shows as well.
Aha - 2023:
https://www.npr.org/2023/10/25/1208435267/sex-teens-tv-movies
"Looking for 'nomance': Study finds teens want less sex in their TV and movies"
This is where I've found myself, too. It's not that I am prudish or against the inclusion of sex scenes in shows and movies—I think some of them are pretty well done—but we're at the point where it feels like a lot of media are just adding in sex scenes for the spectacle of it without it serving any particular purpose for narrative development or characterization.
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No one wants to admit they want that stuff in a survey but those are always super popular
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