this post was submitted on 18 Jul 2024
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Proton Mail goes AI, security-focused userbase goes ‘what on earth’ (pivot-to-ai.com)
submitted 5 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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we appear to be the first to write up the outrage coherently too. much thanks to the illustrious @self

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[–] [email protected] 96 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Well, I was contemplating Protonmail...

I'm in the process of degoogling and dewindowing. I'll be dammed if I'm going towards ANYthing even related to"artificial intelligence" if I can help it.

Feckin bullshit.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I'm pretty happy with Tutanota all things considered. There are some tradeoffs back and forth between the two, but I think it's neat they run on renewable energy. And they're very focussed on being open source which I also appreciate.

Maybe an option worth looking into. They're also encrypted (though I wish either them or proton had an option not to be) and have a free tier)

Hope you find what you're looking for!

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I’ve been using Mailbox.org. I tried Tutanota but the domain name was just awful.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I recommend you get your own domain, then you can’t ever lose your email.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

sure. because domains can be bought, not only temporarily leased.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Not sure why that's relevant. There are domains that have been in use by the same owner for 39 years now.
That's longer than anything I've ever owned.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

so what happens with the domain when the owner dies?

[–] [email protected] -3 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I don’t know anyone who has “lost” a domain (besides incompetence). You can be pedantic if you like, but domain ownership allows you to transfer everything to wherever and no one in a realistic example can take it away from you.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

you’ve never heard of a single example of anyone losing a domain due to legal maneuvering, trusting the wrong TLD (ie a bunch of lgbt folks losing their domains when the TLD’s administrating country decided not to give them service), or a plain ol registrar fuckup?

you’re far too inexperienced to be opining on self-hosting email, then

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

sure. tell that to people who used the .af domains; or learn more about shenanigans with the various oceanian TLDs, or who owns the .io domain, and why.

the fact is that you don't own the domain name, and it's always one missed card payment (or registrar changing hands and losing your card data) from being lost, and then your best chance is arbitrage.

it's one of these things that you have to understand when you start self-hosting anything.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

or registrar changing hands

or registrar "forgetting" renewal settings.. conveniently soon after they introduced new at-checkout products

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

Well it is just tuta now so there is that

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

Thanks

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I'll mention I went to Fastmail (mainly because they're an Aus company as well as the privacy stuff), so far so good.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

fastmail is viciously anti union however https://union.place/@fastmailunited/112672408714595554

[–] [email protected] 20 points 5 months ago (1 children)

ah fuck I wasn’t aware of this, thanks for mentioning

off the list they go

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

I ended up settling on Infomaniak's kSuite after looking around. They're a mid-sized registrar and hosting company.

They're partially employee owned (and I believe in the process of becoming fully owned by employees). I'll grant their privacy policy is just standard EU/Swiss boilerplate, though (stuff like no sharing your data, etc., that you always find in EU paid services like this). GDPR compliance was all I was looking for.

The web client looks nice and kDrive is affordably priced if you need a Google docs/photos/drive alternative.

Edits: clarity and me refreshing my memory on their privacy policy

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Was hesitating between Proton and Ksuite.

I was already pouting toward them, but you finished to convince me to go to Infomaniak, thanks!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I've been using them for my domain and email for almost a year now and I have no complaints. I had to talk to customer support twice to fix a couple things that came up and they got back to me right away. Can't say the same for the last service I used lol

I think it's fair to point out they're not designed around encryption like proton is. It's not a factor in my threat model because I treat email as non-private communication, but it's something you should know if you're wanting proton for that reason.

kDrive is a heavily customized Nextcloud/OnlyOffice implementation with a pretty new and well-regarded file sync algorithm they implemented last year. I would recommend cryptomator to client side encrypt anything you want to protect. It's at rest encrypted, but not end-to-end because there's nothing client side.Here's a list of WebDAV urls from the Cryptomator community to help you set it up. KDrive is on there.

Anyway, hope it works out for you!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

It's mostly for private/family matters so that seems perfect for my need.

Thanks a lot for taking the time to explain like you did, really appreciate it :)

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Yeah I saw that, pretty shitty. I also didn't even realise they had a US division, given how they tout themselves as an Australian company.