this post was submitted on 12 Jun 2024
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[–] [email protected] 38 points 5 months ago (12 children)

Most players use guides to play that game?

Is that common these days?

It doesn't seem very fun.

[–] [email protected] 38 points 5 months ago (2 children)

FromSoft sort of brought it upon themselves with their design philosophy to be fair, going back at least as far as Dark Souls. Selling a DLC and having it locked behind a convoluted puzzle you wouldn't figure out without a guide was certainly a choice, for example.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago (8 children)

Case in point: I played dark souls for 30 minutes and then gave up.

Did not seem worth it.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 months ago (13 children)

30 minutes is not nearly long enough to get to anything convoluted.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I like the idea of Soulslikes. I want to like playing them (some of them, I do: Hellpoint, The Surge, the Jedi games). But I can't bring myself to slog through it just to say I did. It's not fun or worth it to me.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

What do you mean by the idea of soulslikes?

What is the idea that you like about them if you don't like the slog?

Is the slog not the idea of souls likes?

And what did you like about the three games you mentioned that made you slog through their entire games that was different than elden ring?

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (3 children)

But that’s literally the point of these games compared to everything else that’s out there.

Where else do I get cryptic puzzles and unforgiving exploration without a map full of markers?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 5 months ago (2 children)

But that’s literally the point of these games compared to everything else that’s out there.

I don't think that's entirely true. There are lots of people who play them mostly for the challenge of learning and beating the (mostly) well designed bosses.

Where else do I get cryptic puzzles and unforgiving exploration without a map full of markers?

Outer Wilds? Subnautica?

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago

Where else do I get cryptic puzzles and unforgiving exploration without a map full of markers?

Lunacid

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Tangentially related, I played over 30 hours of Elden Ring before learning there were Map Fragments. The first one I found was way up north. I just assumed the world map was supposed to be dogshit.

I wasn't happy for having gotten through without them, I was honestly just kinda pissed that they didn't do some minimal nudging towards the first one.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The first one is a big glowing item by a big stone marker that the graces point you to. It's also marked on the unrevealed map.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 4 months ago (4 children)

It is very fun if you want to be sure that you aren't missing anything the game has to offer. You never know when a game may put something very obscure in a very limited timeframe.

In the case of elden ring or from software games in general NPC's are usually so cryptic that solving the puzzles/quests would take you a lot of trial and error which isnt very fun for me.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago

It is very fun if you want to be sure that you aren't missing anything the game has to offer.

You've hit upon the crux of the issue, in my opinion. FromSoftware games in general are built on exploration and discovery, finding crazy cool stuff in some dark corner of the game is a big part of the experience. However, for discovery to be properly rewarding you have to allow for the possibility that the player will just miss the stuff you've hidden. Indeed, in a blind playthrough of Dark Souls you're likely to stumble upon a bunch of different secrets and still miss 50% or more of them.

That's gonna be excruciating if you insist on "100% completing" the game. It kind of goes back to older days of gaming when there was no internet and no guides, and you just played the game and were happy when you saw the credits, and had no idea you even missed anything. I feel like modern games with their map markers for everything and completion percentages visible have kind of changed the way many people approach games.

Not to say there's anything wrong with using a guide, play the game how you like. And there is definitely an argument that if you bought the whole game, you'd like to experience the whole game.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I'd love a Morrowind type journal to log some of that, totally get I can write things down outside the game, I'd just like to have that option in game especially as I can tend to jump around games and put them down for some time. They're almost there with the player map markers and NPC markers, even just having the ability to make notes in game would be big for me.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 months ago

There are some things you just can't do without a guide/wiki. For example the achievements of "collect every weapon/ring".

Also, the NPC quests are just undoable. There are basically no hints as to how to do them, and there are many ways to permanently lose the quest. Doing correctly a NPC quest going blind as an average player consists of plain luck.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 months ago (13 children)

It isn't. Having to look up everything about a game to know how to play doesn't make a fun game. I quit games with convoluted solutions. I'm not a Dark Souls player for that reason.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 months ago (4 children)

I think most people have used guides, but I wonder how much guide people use. Take me for instance, I play blind as much as possible, but I look up a guide to see if there are any weapons that I can miss in a playthrough.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I typically play the FromSoft games without a guide the first time through, then look up what I missed for subsequent playthroughs.

You don't really need to follow a "build" guide because it's not really that kind of game. There are a lot of weapons to choose from, and some choices in rings, but it's not like Path of Exile where you have a ton of interconnected, semi permanent changes.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I feel like dark souls games are the only time I ever hear about build guides, what kind of games require build guides if not the dark souls ones?

Man, I guess I should just try playing elden ring already haha.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago

I mean, a lot of the "build guides" online are just trash from youtubers and whatnot trying to get clicks. You don't need to follow a complicated youtube video to get "Raise HP and Stamina, get a big spear, get a big shield, stab baddies."

Do you know Path of Exile? Go look at how that game works. You really want to follow a guide there or you're likely going to find halfway through that your character is too weak, and you're too poor to reset it. Other games that are close relatives to Diablo2 often feel like they need build guides. They often have mutually exclusive build choices and a lower player-skill factor.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (9 children)

Eh, if you want specific endings you need a guide or you can spend hundreds of hours finding and talking to each npc after each boss fight. I don’t have that kind of time and I don’t like getting locked out of things because I only talked to the creepy dead looking guy five times instead of six.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (4 children)

I can get it for one or two really hard puzzles in a game, but elden ring at least had no need for a guide at all

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

Eh, maybe after they added the NPC icons to the map. At launch, there was basically zero chance you'd complete any NPC quests on your own.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (13 children)

Usually just to figure out a build that lets them explore without getting completely merked

Yeah yeah git gud and whatever but some folks just want to see the cool story without having to become a dodge rolling master.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

Personally I’ll use a guide if I’m really stuck but otherwise I try to go blind. And I use the wiki to find out where to get cool weapons

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I think most players use guides for most games that are more complex than, say, Mario.

Although not necessarily following a guide for every step, usually just looking up stuff that they have questions on.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

I'm not a fan of guides, i think i would rather watch someone play the game. But to find specific things in elden ring, you either play the game 20 times and find it or you just don't. The thing that i really don't understand is guides on youtube that are: how to get overpowered soon in eldenring. And things like that. That's just godmode or similar cheats, but with extra steps. Why not just download some mods with the stuff you want or whatever, because you're still not really beating the game, you follow someone's instruction to play "his game."