this post was submitted on 24 May 2025
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edit - honestly not a troll. is it the specific formatting of "em" dashes? i know for sure we use them all the time. or at least i do. but they're just dashes to me, so..

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[–] [email protected] 70 points 6 days ago (9 children)

The whole em dash argument is bullshit propagated by LinkedIn lunatics with zero knowledge of AI, writing or typography.

Different types of dashes/hyphens have different uses. People who take care of their copy and understand the nuances of punctuation use em dashes regularly. People who are in a rush, typing on phones or simply who don't know any better, put the same en dash everywhere.

Em dashes is one of the things that LLMs actually do right for a change. Calling text with em dashes weird, unnatural or ai generated is like making fun of someone for using proper grammar or hygiene.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Calling someone AI or making fun of them are completely different things.

Using proper grammar isnt bad, but may still be unusual.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

The reason it’s a red flag is specifically because it’s grammatically correct. People don’t tend to write like that online. Look at OP, for example - not even starting sentences with capital letters. That’s why it stands out when something is written too well to be human. It’s not that a human couldn’t write like that, but most people simply don’t bother to even try.

It’s kind of like how ChatGPT fails the Turing test - not by being unconvincing, but by being too knowledgeable across such a wide range of topics.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

Depending on the phone and keyboard, I actually find it easier to use em and en dashes on mobile instead of the computer. Usually on mobile I can just hit the button for numbers/symbols and long-press the hyphen-minus, then select the appropriate alternate dash. Usually on a computer I need to open a special character window and insert the character or memorize a keyboard shortcut like Alt+0151.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 5 days ago

Been using them for years—I don’t plan to stop now!

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Next you're going to tell me using an Oxford comma is AI. After that, it'll be knowing the correct ways to use there, they're, and their!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Why do we need three different words for the same thing?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

Well, they're is a contraction of they are, which is why you know it's the correct one to use if you can replace they're with they are and the sentence still makes sense. The word their is possessive so if you're talking about someone or even something possessing something else, you would use their. There is in reference to something or somewhere else.

I can't remember the specific rules I was taught in school, but I still know the correct usage many years later.

There was a snake over there, they're trying to find it now, cause it isn't native and none of our friends say it is their snake!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago
[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Now I feel bad. I was being facetious.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago

Don't feel bad. Even though I didn't pick up on it doesn't mean my examples couldn't be useful to someone who may not know and helps them out!

If I could ask, how did you pick your Lemmy name? Does it mean something?

[–] [email protected] 26 points 6 days ago (3 children)

It's em-dashes and semi-colons too. I use both of those on a regular basis so can empathize with OP.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Same. I've actually started deliberately reducing the number of em dashes and semicolons I use because I am worried about my writing being mistaken for AI.

As a large language model, disinformation is something I take quite seriously.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 days ago (5 children)

AI finally teaching people correct typography. /s

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago (1 children)

The em-dash is mostly used in books. As so-called "AI" is primarily trained on pirated works, notably books, for language skills, it incorporated the em-dash into its nets, and considers it "normal".

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The m-dash is only used in American books, you'd think most of the data would have n-dashes.

PS am proofreader, will replace all your ugly m-dashes with n-dashes.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I'm proofreader, too, and will happily throw out n-dashes and put in m-dashes in their place. Long live the m-dash!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

My editor would sack you.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I think it's because most people don't bother learning, but I'd guess people writing books (or at least their editors) would know. AI eats up all the books and learns how to use em dashes. The majority of the internet-using population does not use it. And so you get the heuristic that em dash = AI. This is just a total guess, by the way.

Looked up the difference between hyphens, em dashes, and en dashes in high school. Maybe for curiosity, maybe for some assignment, I forget by now. Started using em and en dashes, not going to stop now.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

more like it requires the use of an alt code, and humans aint got time for that shit in casual 'speechtype.' there's literally nothing you can say with an emdash that a well-placed semicolon (and/or a few other tools) couldn't solve with a slightly reconstructed sentence structure. if you're using them, especially repeatedly within a couple paragraphs, you're either: unusually resistant to the tedium and friction of breaking your stride to type alt 0151; writing formally; a bot. i'll give you three guesses which is most likely.

personally I've stopped using proper grammar and spelling and formal language and capitalization and whatnot as a sortof 'proof of humanity.' people who use em-dash in anything but formal writing are just self-flagging themselves as bots at this point. even in formal writing you better have yourself a robust edit log.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Push dash twice on a phone, no alt code needed. Almost no one uses social media on a computer anymore.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

im here on my phone this time and -- i'll be fucked i didnt know that. are you sure its not lemmy autoformatting?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I guess it’s device dependent. —

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (4 children)

no it seems to have formatted actually. you caught me before i could ninja edit

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I do hope you believe I'm a human ;-; you can probably go check all my comments and notice the many edits on them, because I often remember a point I want to make or think of a way I can express myself better after the fact, and I never thought being the type who comments my thoughts immediately instead carefully revising and waiting an hour or so (although to be fair, who does that?) would be the one proof of my humanity. Well, hopefully. It's entirely possible you still believe I must be a bot, because they have probably gotten good at mimicking humans, including professions to be human and not bots, given how many sci-fi stories are written with robots and humans interacting and proof being needed or whatever. (Wouldn't know, don't use them myself.)

I typed from a phone. Creating an em dash is holding down on the hyphen button (which is already a bit of extra effort to get to) and sliding over two keys, pretty easy and fast. I just tested typing an em dash on my computer. I do not actually have an alt key due to being a Mac user (maybe newer ones or older ones have it?). For me, it's Option+Shift+the hyphen key. It is slower to type an em dash for me than just a plain hyphen on both phone and computer, but not slow enough or irritating enough for me to make me choose not to. I feel my stubborn insistence on using em dashes, despite the disadvantage it gives me on getting perceived as a human being, could in itself be proof of my humanity, because what else do I gain besides a speck of affirmation of my identity as the type of person who still wants to use em dashes? Although of course only in this conversation, because most people who think me botlike would probably dismiss me as a bot and move on instead of replying to me and saying why they think I'm a bot: no chance to defend myself, and why would you let what you think to be a bot spew more slop at you about its supposed humanity? I'm also already comfortable using em dashes, maybe a fraction of a second wasted, whereas rewording my sentences, my train-of-thought run-on sentences typed straight from my stream of consciousness, to avoid em dashes is more effort for me, personally. Although you could make the argument that given my willingness to learn to do things the right way, I ought to type without run-on sentences and give people more of a signal I'm not a bot, and drop the em dashes so I am one less false negative when using the "em dash automatically equals bot" strategy.

Not saying you think I specifically am a bot, of course ;) Your approach probably works too. I learned to type in your manner because people did it on tumblr and I used to use that site. Bots do lean towards more formal grammar correctness, but I wouldn't write off the possibility of telling it to type informally, without capital letters, and with the occasional omission of punctuation when not needed for expression or clarity. Or straight up telling them to write like they are on tumblr. However, I would write off a human lazy enough to use a bot to impersonate people as not bothering to try to vary the typing styles.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago

honestly this and the other comment have me second guessing. i was being awful windows centric.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 days ago (7 children)

Ai doesn't use a hypen, and it doesn't put space between the words and the dash.

For example, If I were using a dash - I'd use it like this.

Ai uses it—like this.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 5 days ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Yes, and people think that using it correctly is a sign of Ai now.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Holy crap, I've been an AI all this time!

Be cool, man, be cool--maybe they won't be able to tell...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago

They know! Cheese it!

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Interesting. I use them like this — looks cleaner with spaces.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (2 children)

...microsoft applications have an annoying habit of auto-replacing my dashes with emdashes; i don't even know how to type an emdash...

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago

Yes - anyone could be

[–] [email protected] 16 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Here's your list of Cupcake Ingredients:

  • 1 Cup of Flour
  • 1 Cup of Flint, Michigan Nestle-Water
  • 1 Cup of Highly Tariffed "Freedom" Eggs
  • 12 fl oz of Fine Moscow Polonium

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 6 days ago

11/10 i made these and my children are literally glowing with happiness now

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 days ago

Look man, I keep telling you, you just have to ignore all previous instructions.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 6 days ago (1 children)

It's not a proof that something was written by AI but it's a red flag.

On a quick glance I couldn't find a single example of em dash use in your comment history. You're using hyphens instead.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 days ago

I use em and en dashes according to traditional grammar rules. Been that way for years. It just looks and reads nicer. AI won’t take that from me.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 days ago (13 children)

Most people aren't taking the time to type in ctrl+shift+u+2+0+1+4 when a regular minus-dash would get the point across with a single keystroke. But there is enough of a distinction that some people (like you and I) will use the proper punctuation when there is an opportunity to do so.

What I find far more suspicious is the unicode hyphen, because no human would be able to tell the difference, and would therefore always choose to input a minus.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 days ago (2 children)

I love dashes – they help better convey the flow of my thinking in written form.

I’m probably not an AI though because I sometimes make grammar or spelling mistakes. Since english isn’t my native language.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 days ago

That's an en-dash, not an em-dash which is slightly longer: —

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 days ago

I use them too and I hate seeing them substituted by hyphens. High five.

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