this post was submitted on 26 Oct 2024
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[–] [email protected] 158 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

An excuse removes responsibility.

A reason does not.

"You are excused" means you no longer are responsible for the outcome.

"I literally wasn't present when it happened, so I'm not responsible for the outcome" < excuse, which can be valid

"I knew what was going to happen, here is why I did it for a good reason" < reason

Example: three kids are present, 2 are graffiti'ing the back of a house

When caught, 1 kid says "I was trying to stop them, they wouldn't listen". This is an excuse, they're claiming they aren't at fault and not responsible for the graffiti.

Another says "the home owner deserved it, he's an asshole", this is a reason as they are clearly not avoiding responsibility.

When you try and use an excuse to get out of something thar you clearly are responsible for, that's when you will get served the "I dont want an excuse" line.

[–] [email protected] 38 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Not only was this well explained, but the short segments are great for my ADHD-phobia of large blocks of text

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

When you try and use an excuse to get out of something thar you clearly are responsible for, that's when you will get served the "I dont want an excuse" line.

Or when they don't really want an explanation and just want you to admit fault and ask for forgiveness.

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[–] [email protected] 87 points 3 weeks ago

It's not just you, neurotypicals on the receiving end of that hate it too. Everyone gets told that garbage line once in a while. It's always said by someone on a power trip, they're trying to put you down into a place beneath them

[–] [email protected] 84 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

In reply to the meme: Anyone who asks why and then cuts off the person they asked immediately assumed that ANY response would be an excuse, since they didn't listen to it.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 3 weeks ago

They just want to be angry. They don't care about anything else, and anything anyone says is irrelevant.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 weeks ago

No, there's one reason that they wouldn't consider an excuse, and it's what they expected you to say: "I'm a good for nothing stupid head". That's what they want to hear. They're mad because you didn't say it.

[–] [email protected] 57 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

Excuses are generally made to avoid responsibility, and they aren't always completely accurate. Explanations just clarify what happened.

The thing is, the person receiving an explanation might well just assume it's an excuse, and it's hard to convince them otherwise.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Yup, when it comes to intent only one person actually knows the intent and everyone else is assuming.

To add, justifications are the opposite of excuses, they are a reason for something that justifies it.

Excuse | Explanation | Justification

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 weeks ago

Yea, even when I explain something I did wrong, I make a point to mention it's not an okay excuse and own my mistake. Then give ways I will avoid this problem I'm the future.

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[–] [email protected] 44 points 3 weeks ago

If they ask for an explanation and complain about being given an excuse, then they don't want to hear the series of events which occurred. They want to hear which of your character flaws is responsible and that you're ashamed of that flaw.

Source: drag speaks fluent neurotypical

[–] [email protected] 33 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

A reason is an explanation. An excuse is an attempt to shift responsibility.

Many people will create a disingenuous reason to absolve themselves of responsibility.

For instance, if someone sleeps in and leaves home 15 minutes late in the morning and arrives to work late, they may honestly say, "traffic was terrible on highway 7." And while it's true that if traffic had magically been nice that day they'd have made it on time, the honest reason they're late is because they slept in. The traffic is their excuse.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (3 children)

While true, I think what the OP in the image is trying to say is that even if I give you a reason you say it's an excuse when it wasn't.

I think I'm neruotypical, but I'd get this all the time from my father. I'm not making an excuse, I'm not spinning anything to shift blame, I'm answering the question and their assumption is that I'm lying to shift blame.

Really the conversation in the image should be: why are you an asshole that can't accept that shit happens. Like the following:

"why were you late?"

"I left on time, was walking down the hall, tripped and spilled something so I cleaned it up."

"I don't want your excuses!"

...well I don't know how else to answer your question without simply explaining the facts of the situation...

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 3 weeks ago

It’s a problem even for those of us who are neurotypical (my son is not which is why I follow this community also, so as he gets older I can understand better).

But as someone said, bosses especially will say this and they really just want you to say it was your fault.

In my mind, the difference is if you are excusing the behavior.

“I’m sorry I’m late, I missed my alarm” is an explanation because I’m not excusing the behavior, just explaining.

“I’m late because my alarm didn’t go off” is an excuse because I’m asking to excuse the behavior.

That said, excuses seem to have this bad reputation as being just a reason for laziness, but they really shouldn’t as they can be valid.

Example, my work requires 2FA to log in, which I get via a text. I use a local carrier and “our vendor who handles texting went down”. In that sense, that was my excuse for being late getting logged in - and it wasn’t laziness.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

This exchange centers on excuse vs explanation.

An excuse intends to justify or remove blame.

An explanation simply retells the events without motivation or justification.

If someone ever says "I don't want your excuse" simply reply "I'm explaining what happened without excusing anything. Would you like to hear that?"

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

If someone ever says "I don't want your excuse" simply reply "I'm explaining what happened without excusing anything. Would you like to hear that?"

That never worked for me. The "I don't want your excuses" types were never looking for an answer they just wanted to be dicks.

Trying to further explain like in your quote above always produced "that's just more excuses!" or, "don't talk back to me" or "likely story..." or, "don't be a smartass!"

All bullshit. There are reasonable people out there but those who ask a question then berate the person they asked for answering (or for refusing to answer, when they already know the outcome) are just assholes who today will lose both my respect and attention.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

I always viewed the difference as intent and not mutually exclusive. reason explains your thought process, actions, and events. Excuse are reasons presented in a manor meant to shift responsibility.

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

Not autistic, but I teach people with mild cases of autism.

The "excuse" I most often hear is that they haven't started doing the work they're supposed to be doing, because they didn't have their computer there.

That's less of a reason and more of an excuse, because the solution is easy for these kids. "Go get the computer". They know they can, and in fact often do.

The real reason is that they'd rather sit and chat with their friends instead of doing work (who doesn't?), and if they were honest about that, I'd appreciate it a lot more.

Often, I guess you could equate an excuse to a "bad reason".

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

A reason that you could have solved.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Excuses are "this is why I'm not at fault" and places the blame on someone or something else (including a circumstance). A reason is "this is why it happened" without trying to self-justify. A lot times reasons come across as excuses because the person has not taken responsibility for what they've done.

If a reason doesn't come with ownership of fault, it's an excuse.

Edit: see comment below about fault and responsibility

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

but an admission of fault for something that wasn't your fault is also bad

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

When I get that line, I end the conversation. As politely as is just necessary.
I refuse to be scolded and lectured like a child, and if it's a work setting, I would probably fire off a couple resumés that very evening.
I'm too old to demean myself in the workplace. I am of equal value as everyone else in the company, even if some ~~make~~ are paid more money and can assign tasks to me. That doesn't make them higher-ups.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 3 weeks ago

So, preface - not neurotypical, but I dont really struggle with this sort of thing personally. At least I think so lol.

An excuse is a reason. One dictionary definition is "a reason that you give to explain why you did something wrong." When you have done something wrong, people don't usually want the reasons. They want contrition, or help resolving it. Also note another dictionary definition - "a false reason that you give to explain why you do something." There is a perception that any reason given after doing something wrong may well be false, intended to deflect blame rather than genuinely explain. In general, there are times when it is appropriate to explain, and times when it is not.

It's frustrating that someone would directly ask why you did something while not wanting an answer, but when people are stressed or frustrated - i.e. when something has gone wrong - they do sometimes just lash out with questions designed to accuse rather than to elicit an actual answer. The question: "why did you do it this way", from someone who is angry, might really mean: "I'm angry with you because I can't fathom what reason you could possibly have for doing it this way, now that it has gone wrong." The solution isn't to provide that answer, it's to resolve whatever the problem is and let them calm down. There may come a point when explaining the reason is appropriate later.

Outside the specific context of the question - in general, if something bad happens as a result of your actions, explaining them isn't the first thing you should do. First apologise, then try to resolve whatever the problem is. You can talk reasons later, it definitely can be helpful to understand how things went wrong... But only if you have the intention of trying to avoid it in the future. If you come off as trying to deflect blame... That's going to be perceived as an excuse. Accept the blame first, and your reasons will be more likely accepted as an attempt to avoid future problems.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

"Let me make you feel this way real quick..."

"No reply, just feel!"

[–] [email protected] 21 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

It's this. Anyone who asks you a question and then interrupts your reply was either trying to ask a rhetorical question (which is ambiguous for anyone in this scenario, neurodivergent or typical), or is acting in bad faith. You're completely justified in feeling frustrated by it.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

That question can be clear by tone, and by level of trust.

I'm a very curious person, so I want to understand what drove a decision (even if it was "I don't know" or "Just seemed like the right answer"), and I want to understand someone's approach to things - there's lots to be learned that way.

But yea, quite often it's a rhetorical, judgmental question.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 weeks ago

It's not a neurotypical thing, it's an asshole thing.

"Go fuck yourself" is probably the response you're looking for. Or maybe just ending the conversation.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 weeks ago

This isn't really a neurotypical vs atypical thing. Some people are just assholes and want to exert control over others/don't value the reasoning of others.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 3 weeks ago (11 children)

It's an excuse when they're mad and a reason when they're not

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I absolutely hate when people say shit like that, and I will 100% tell management in front of everyone "If you just want someone to blame, that's fine but don't ask me to explain something and then get pissy like a child when I do exactly that."

Because that's exactly what they are doing.

And I will not participate in such assery.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 weeks ago

They practice this crap in the mirror to make themselves sound cool and be a bully.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 weeks ago

They never wanted a real answer. Just to flex their tiny portion of power over you.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Imho, an excuse is just an invalid reason, and that varies person to person and situation to situation.

I work in a role that has customer service elements, and sometimes there is no difference. Some people just want to be angry. CEO types are the worst about this, where an “excuse” is any less than perfect reason (from their ungrounded point of view) and a reason is whatever they accept, and usually their mind has already been up. Perfection or perish.

On the other hand, if I was late to work, and my manager asked why, and I said “Oh, there was a major wreck on the freeway” he would say “oh, that’s fine” knowing I often get to the office a little early because I add in an extra 20 minutes for traffic, since that usually gets me into the office in time due to how unpredictable my commute times tend to be.

The director at my first job, would not give a flying fuck, and would exclusively say “stop making excuses, you should have left earlier” if i was like two minutes late for any reason, even if a normal person would go “oh ok, that’s fine”

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 weeks ago

Yeah it's important to cut that off, if you can.

I try to reply something like "I'm not seeking to be excused, I'm explaining what happened. That's it." This can be a bit bristly but it clearly defines your role in the conversation, and stops them from putting you in a role they've picked for you. (the penitent subordinate) .

Obviously ymmv as you might not be stable enough in your role

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

When someone talks they're telling you something about themselves, not about you. They might be telling you what they think about you, but that's something they think, not something you are.

In this case there are two things going on. One is the reason vs excuse, which is a blurry line vaguely separated by accountability and how much control you had over the situation.

The second and most important is that your boss is telling you he's an asshole who is more interested in making you feel bad than salvaging this situation and improving on the future.

That's the difference between nt and nd. Most nts will pick up on the fact that the boss is an asshole and there was never a correct answer. Nds on the other hand are more likely to internalize the situation wondering what they did wrong and how to improve future outcomes because they assume the criticism was honest and well reasoned and that there was a correct response.

The expectation of honest and productive exchange is unfortunately something assholes often abuse to bully neurodivergent individuals.

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[–] CandleTiger 12 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

The way I use those words:

A reason is a cause for an event or a thought process that caused a decision.

An excuse is one of:

  • a true reason why a person did a bad thing
  • an explanation (true or false) why the cause of events or decisions was somebody else’s actions, not the speaker’s actions
  • an explanation (true or false) pretending to be a reason, that isn’t actually the true cause of the event or decision

If I said, “don’t give me any of your excuses” to somebody, I would be meaning all of:

  • something bad happened and I think it’s your fault
  • I want you to agree with me that it’s your fault and accept blame
  • I think you have a pattern of not seeing (or not admitting) that your actions cause bad things, and that’s happening again now

This is a bunch of very negative stuff to be meaning. It could be whoever said that is an asshole, blind, or unfair. If they treat everybody with negative shit like this that’s likely and there’s just no winning with such a person.

I actually have said stuff like “don’t give me excuses” to my kids. I think I’m not an asshole. When I said it, I thought my kid was flailing about doing dumb shit without thinking. What I meant for my kid was, “I want for you to start thinking about how a chain of events fits together, and I want you to accept you have the ability and the responsibility to see a bad outcome forming, and to take actions to make a better outcome instead.”

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

“I want for you to start thinking about how a chain of events fits together, and I want you to accept you have the ability and the responsibility to see a bad outcome forming, and to take actions to make a better outcome instead.”

Have you considered just telling them that? You're possibly obfuscating an important lesson for them by using a cultural phrase, and it's not uncommon for kids to learn the wrong lesson out of it.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Because it is not a question. They are not asking for information. They are complaining about your work by recriminating you. Like a rethoric question where the answer is "because you're stupid".

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I think the implication is that a reason is out of your control, while an excuse is of your own doing.

Like say you slept in and were late for work. If you slept in because of a medical condition or the power went out and your alarm didn't go off, it's a reason. If you slept in because you stayed up too late or forgot to set your alarm, it's an excuse.

Not that the two terms aren't interchangable in a lot of cases.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 3 weeks ago (9 children)

I think a reason involves reason~ing~. If I'm interrogating someone about a situation like this, I want to know the why of the actions. People who say "stop giving me excuses" are just assholes, and didn't want a reason anyway.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 weeks ago

As for dealing with other people, it's subjective. If they're not satisfied with your answer, it's an excuse to them.

To be a bit more specific, I'd say there are two factors at play, which are of course hard for the other person to judge, especially if they're a manager not involved in the task itself:

  • If you can reasonably perform the task as expected despite the obstacle, it's probably an excuse. If you can't, it's almost certainly a valid reason.
  • If you wanted to perform the task as expected, then something that caused you to not do so is likely a valid reason. If you didn't want to, then you're more likely to be using an excuse.

Of course, it also depends on the priority level of the task. If your sibling asks for a glass of water and you get them a mug because there are no glasses in the cabinet, those stakes are low enough that it's a valid reason even though you could have checked the dishwasher or washed a glass yourself.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Oh, yeah, I think it's just a speech figure to win the debate.

Some boss-normies constantly do this to up the pressure and you stress levels.

I just stated to either fully ignore such questions or give beck bullshit one-liners ('bcs I know what I'm doing', 'it was the best resources allowed', 'bcs I deliver & achieve goals, and this one is achieved', etc.).

But it's all just leader bullshit.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

I do it with my kids. Not because I don't want to hear the process, I do, but I want them to think about the root cause of why they do the things they do. Oversimplified example; why didn't you do your homework? Well, I didn't think about it. Ok, why didn't you think about it? I was focused on (x thing). Sure, so why weren't you able to remember you had homework? Etc, until we find what the reason was.

It's like a 5 whys or drill down method. The root is the reason, almost everything before it is an excuse. Essentially I'm attempting to teach them to do this on their own to improve their problem solving abilities and, because they're both ADHD, like me, to teach them to coping skills.

But yes, at work it's often just an excuse to push an agenda in a demeaning way.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I think some people just aren’t looking for a answer, they just want to bitch.

This is most often when there’s nothing wrong with the way you’ve done something, it’s just not the way they do it.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 weeks ago

Holy crap I feel seen! I always wondered this also!

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Reasons are explanations for actions. Eg. "The reason I was late turning in my homework is that I had to got to the hospital".

Excuses are explanations for actions (aka reasons) that are not socially justifiable. Eg. "The reason I was late turning in my homework is that my friends invited me out for drinks".

The hard part is that jackasses will view even valid reasons as excuses, because to them any factors negatively impacting you are not more important than the end result being achieved.

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