this post was submitted on 19 Aug 2023
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[–] JackbyDev 164 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I don't see a problem with it as long as no trafficking is involved.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 1 year ago (43 children)

I agree with this. I have found that most women do not however. It has been a great trouble for me, to talk about, when trying to find a new partner.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

This is pretty surprising to me. In my experience (as a woman myself) women are much more likely than men to be vocally supportive of treating sex work like any other service and of breaking the taboo of offering or receiving those services.

I actually can’t think of any woman in my life who would judge someone negatively for seeing a sex worker (assuming full consent from all involved parties including partners). Most men I know would similarly have no issue with it, but a handful would read it as not being able to get laid and see that as something negative.

My social circle isn’t representative of the general population, but I’m still surprised to hear your experience is dramatically different. I wonder if the way the conversations are going make the issue more about consent, cheating, or other non-sex-work-specific ethical questions.

[–] [email protected] 47 points 1 year ago

I have sometimes seen a phenomenon where people are very supportive of things until they are affected directly, and then they are supportive of those things in other people’s lives.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (5 children)

You should definitely bring this up as often as possible. Enjoying coerced intimacy is totally well adjusted behavior.

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[–] [email protected] 98 points 1 year ago (29 children)

So long as everyone involved consents sans coercion, I do not see why anyone else should care/be involved

[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 year ago

This is pretty much my view on people's sexuality generally.

I don't care who's doing what to who as long as everyone involved is a consenting adult.

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[–] [email protected] 77 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

I want to live in a world where no one feels they are struggling so much that they need to turn to selling their body for sex.

However, I don't live in that world, so in the meantime I support sex workers, because sex work is work.


The men who use their services? That's a tougher nut to crack.

My partners brother is heavily mentally disabled and pushing 40, he's still very much like a child, but obviously does not have a child's libido. This man has never had an intimate interaction with a woman. He might never get the chance, he struggles to talk to women, even women who have similar issues as himself. I think sex workers could be beneficial for him, in the right context, for giving him intimacy he may otherwise never experience. I don't think he would ever think/know to pursue a sex worker, but I could be wrong. There's also the issue of his emotions began to be involved, which leads me to...

I'd be more worried about him finding OnlyFans and blowing through all his disability money each month instead of realizing he's not actually getting much out of such a "relationship." He's the kind of person who a parasocial relationship like that could really damage their already troubling mental health. The same thing could happen with a prostitute, but they are less likely to hang the relationships on fake social cues that say they care about you. He's not quite advanced enough to understand that these women are being paid to pretend to care, I don't think.


Also, there's other types of men who use these services I'm sure aren't a net positive. There are plenty of conservative men who already view a standard relationship as a sexual transaction (I take care of girl = she give me sex), so they're not far from viewing everything women with transactional already. Secondly, not only do the already view it as transactional, many of these conservative men turn to prostitutes because average women simply don't want to date them because of their horrible, outdated views on women's bodily autonomy. They are already angsty and moody because of women not wanting to date them, and they often are willing to take out their frustrations on the woman they paid to serve them. I see these men as not respecting and hurting the women they turn to for sex work.


Anyway, just some quick thoughts on the subject.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

I want to live in a world where no one feels they are struggling so much that they need to turn to selling their body for sex.

You see, that's the problem. You are implicitly devaluing sex work compared to other professions. You're not acknowledging that some people actually want to, and choose to do sex work. There's nothing wrong whatsoever with someone choosing prostitution, stripping, escort, etc.

Could you say your same statement about being a lawyer? A teacher? An engineer?

"I want to live in a world where no one feels they are struggling so much that they need to turn to being an engineer."

You see how weird that sounds? So why can you say it about sex work? Do you see how derisive you're being toward it as a profession? Funny that you say you're supportive while implying that what they're doing is a last resort...πŸ€¦β€β™‚οΈ

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I get you point but I genuinely want to live in a world where people are not forced to turn to engineering.

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I wonder if there's a third type too where a person has an extremely busy life and doesn't have time or possibly doesn't want an intimate relationship.

I don't know if it's "right" that this type of person pays for sex. I think it makes sense as long as they respect the person that they're paying and understand this person does not 'belong' to them - but this last point appears to be a problem for people whenever they pay anyone for anything.

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[–] [email protected] 61 points 1 year ago (2 children)

My opinion on them is the same as whatever opinion the sex workers have on them

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago (19 children)

If you support the sex workers, this is the main answer. If you like them but not their clients how is that supposed to work economically?

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[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 year ago

I have very mixed feelings.

On the one hand, I don't think that there's anything inherently immoral about sex work.

On the other hand, a large amount of sex work is not voluntary and consensual.

There are a few sites where (legitimate) sex workers can advertise. Prices vary considerably, but you'll typically see prices starting at $400+ for "full service". They typically have specific limits laid out, what things they do and don't do, and usually require some kind of screening for their own safety. If you go to sites where clients can review sex workers, you can find listings for $50-$100 for full-service sex work with "new girls", frequently Asian. These women--most of the people exchanging sex for money are women---in those listings do not screen clients, do not have pre-stated limits, frequently do not require the use of barriers, and always work for an "agency". It is clear to me that these are not women that are doing sex work consensually. People that frequent these sex workers are complicit in their abuse. (Willing sex workers can and do work through agencies; that makes their client screening less onerous for them. But they still have clear limits, and not rock-bottom prices.)

Given how many women, esp. at the lower end of the pricing spectrum, aren't doing sex work consensually, I would not have a good opinion of a person that chooses to use them. I could not accept someone that knew that they were trafficked and didn't care, or chose to ignore the probability that they were doing sex work involuntarily.

I would have no opinion either way about someone that chooses to use a professional domme; that, at least, is a segment of the market that's unlikely to involved trafficked victims.

[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 year ago (3 children)

We pay for everything else. A professional is a professional. Mechanic or prostitute. It's a mutual transaction. Regulate it and make sure it's safe. When ai porn blows up there going to be a lot more sex workers.

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[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If the sex worker is consenting without duress and is being treated well (I recognize that's a big 'if') then I'm fine with it. I have no inherent objections to sex work itself so it would feel like a double standard to judge the people who use it.

Unfortunately the moral waters are muddied by the rampant trafficking, drug abuse, etc. within the industry.

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[–] [email protected] 44 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I find it weird that someone would want to have sex with someone who obviously does it only for money.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 year ago (9 children)

Now that you mention it, isn't it odd that it feels weird? I wonder exactly where the line starts to come into focus between something as innocuous as paying for a meal and something as taboo as paying for sex? Obviously that's a question of culture, but it's entertaining to think about nonetheless...

Like, there's definitely something kind of unusual about this specific taboo. Speaking from the perspective of modern western culture, I'd say that the following things which share some characteristics with prostitution are all individually qualified as being relatively socially acceptable:

  • Paying for therapy (i.e.: buying the service of social comfort)
  • Paying for a massage (i.e.: buying the service of physical comfort)
  • Having a one night stand (i.e.: receiving the service of sexual comfort without buying it)
  • Buying a sex toy (i.e.: buying sexual comfort without involving a service worker)

I posit that there's something uniquely specific about the direct intersection of service, money, and sexual pleasure which makes prostitution uniquely uncomfortable for (modern western) people to think about. I might be overthinking it, though. Perhaps these three things are already uncomfortable topics to really think about so we naturally want to resist the idea of combining them?

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[–] [email protected] 42 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I dont care

So long as they treat the women properly, and said women is not being forced to work as a sex worker.

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 1 year ago

I don't see why it's any of my business. It's like asking what I think of men who go to the gym, or like lettuce on their sandwiches. It's just another normal thing people do in life.

Sex is a very normal everyday thing that many people need to feel fulfilled, and the sex industry is great to fill that need. People like to bone. It's none of my business, and because I'm not a Catholic from the 1800s, I don't think it's deeply wrong or sinful.

The only issue is that it's not regulated enough, there aren't enough protections in place for the workers or the customers.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Logically, if it's two consenting adults, why not?

Personally, fucking ew.

Overall, if you are single, you do you! If you have someone waiting at home, go fuckin sort yourself, never be a cheater.

[–] victron 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Let alone cheating, you don't want to catch something and carry it home. So yeah, cheating sucks.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I know you probably mean prostitutes or "escorts", but aren't porn actors also sex workers? I watch porn all the time, so do a lot of people. I feel sorry for the sad sacks who aren't "allowed" to look at porn because their significant other is so goddamn insecure, the idea of their partner having their own private thoughts scares the shit out of them.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 year ago (2 children)

What is your opinion on women that make use of sex worker services?

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Support prostitutes by means other than being a John. Do a Holden Caulfield if you like and pay for their time to just hang out, idk. The John is instinsically in a position of power by using money to be entitled to sex, and is part of the social violence of coercing desperate people into dangerous and frequently traumatizing* labor.

*look up ptsd rates

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago

Also don't forget how many of these women are already struggling with mental health issues.

In the USA, if you are on disability, you are effectively barred from saving money.

I know of plenty of disabled women who turn to sex work to be able to pay the bills since their meager disability check is not enough to effectively live off. It is all under the table so they essentially just don't report the earnings.

So many of these women really don't need the added awfulness of being a sex worker in their lives, but do it out of necessity of a broken system.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago (14 children)

Most of what I know is informed by stereotypes from various facets of American pop culture and not reality so my opinion is not valuable

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago (4 children)

IMO the more that money is involved in anything, the less actually voluntary it is, because we need money to live and plenty of people don't have a lot of options for making money. With sex it's really important for everything to be actually consensual, but paying for it makes that ambiguous, they can't really know, so I see it as creepy and unethical.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago

I love my customers

[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago

Safe. Sane. Consensual. Pretty simple. If money changes hands, whatever. Don't be a dick and no means no. In fact, until there is a yes, you cannot assume there is consent. I digress...

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago

My idea of what the average sex worker client is like isn't positive, but I wouldn't hold it against someone I already know to be upstanding if I found out they had used one's services.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I hold no prejudices. In general, I try not to judge anyone until I've got to know them, what their values are, etc.

I hired an escort once. It was awkward. First, I was paranoid about it being a sting or something. Then, I was worried about getting my wallet stolen. When "it" was over, I started getting up to leave, then the women was like "your time's not up yet," then laid beside me and started a conversation about q-anon type stuff. Lady had some mental issues, which made me feel kinda bad about the whole thing (and a little bit scared at the time, lol).

Anyways, I would never bring this up on a date or even to a partner (or friend). It is completely irrelevant to a relationship. If asked directly if I've ever hired a sex worker, I would lie. There's a lot of stigma around sex workers and their clients, even with people who are generally more "accepting." Someone could be a good potential partner, friend, or whatever, but have one weird hang-up about not dating someone who was a "john," and I wouldn't want to exclude them from being a potential partner/friend just because of that.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Because of the poor treatment of the workers due to it being illegal, I'd say the majority are not great to terrible people.

If they go to legal, well managed brothels, they're probably ok people.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Its a perfectly reasonable option for those that for whatever reason are unable to meet their needs by more conventional/ socially acceptable means. I do not make use of sex worker services currently but if the need arose in the future I would not rule it out, and would not look down on anyone else for doing so (as long as trafficing is not involved)

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Gross. How can you even enjoy sex when you essentially bought someone's consent?

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sad but I think it's okay and should be allowed anyways. I feel the same way about McDonald's and Twinkies.

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