The idea of forced automatic BIOS update is dumb. BIOS only should initialize its required components and fuck off afterwards.
this post was submitted on 10 Jun 2024
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seems like it should be an opt-in setting in BIOS;
- HP might want to learn from the other OEM vendors what to do for BIOS/UEFI configuration
There is no BIOS anymore. It's all UEFI, which is massively fatter and more complex. Being fat and complex, they have plenty of security vulnerabilities that need to be patched.
At the time of writing, HP has made no official comment on the matter — and since this battery update was forced on laptops originally released in 2020, this issue has also bricked hardware outside of the warranty window, when previously users could simply send in the laptop for a free repair.
I am not all that big on conspiracies, but this is HP, which is famous for screwing people over for as much money as possible and bricking perfectly usable technology, so if it turns out this was intentional, I won't even be a little shocked.
As the enshittification of everything gains momentum, I could also see this as an intentional "oops!"
But we are talking about HP. They are now and always have been completely incompetent PC makers. I had friends back in the early 2000s with broken HP desktop computers that I refused to work on because they were the hardest to get working again.
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I remember warning labels on BIOS updates that basically said that if nothing is broken, don't do the update because the risk of bricking the device did not outweigh any potential benefits. That vendors are now pushing mandatory BIOS updates through Windows Update is terrifying.
When I heard that BIOS updates were going out automatically via Windows update I had just assumed the devices in question must be using an A/B update scheme to prevent the risk of accidentally bricking the system, because obviously they should.
Absolutely insane that's not the case.
Why can even touch bios from system? That sound like horrible attack vector. If can infect bios, no reformat or reinstall will remove virus.
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They really, really, should be doing A/B systems. Or just have an absolutely minimum loader that can load from EPROM/flash or USB so when the system storage gets messed up, you can still launch the updater from USB. That bios loader doesn't need to know more than how to talk to storage and shovel bytes to the CPU, maybe blink a LED, it's simple enough to be able to be actual ROM, never needing to be updated.
Wait, no: SD cards can talk SPI... it's not going to be fast but it's only a few megs anyway. The EPROM or Flash you're using probably speaks SPI, already. You could literally make a system which can load the BIOS from SD card for the cost of a card cage and maybe a jumper. You could have gigabytes of bios storage for three bucks by using off the shelf cheap SD cards, forget A/B storage you could do the whole bloody alphabet and people could replace the thing easily.
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Are we sure it is the BIOS? Perhaps these people have run out of magenta subpixels or their printer ink subscription has lapsed.
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No one should buy HP products anymore. Seriously everything they make is terrible and then they break it more when they get bored of you and want you to buy another one.
Thing is, all the other major manufacturers are just as bad or worse.
As a PC technician, HP still somehow has the best service and support, which speaks volumes about how bad everyone else is. Dell's support tools are a generation behind HP's, and Lenovo's build quality is atrocious. Not to mention Lenovo's technician support is so badly fragmented and poorly run, they default to having the customer send the device in for repair and avoid sending an on-site technician just so they can avoid dealing with technician support. Speaking from personal experience, getting to the right person when I have a problem or need to order additional parts is like pulling teeth, and even if I manage to reach someone, they're usually equal parts incompetent and unhelpful.
And Apple doesn't even want to service their stuff.
These days, you have to pick your poison.
How do these things not have unbrickable A/B firmware partitions by now? Even I have that on a $2 microcontroller. Self-test doesn't pass after an update? Instant automatic rollback to the previous working partition.
It's pretty ridiculous not to have a way of recovering from a failed update.
On my desktop, I just have to plug a flash drive with the BIOS image into a specific USB port and press a button on the motherboard. It doesn't matter if the BIOS is broken and it doesn't even require a CPU or RAM to be installed.
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Hate to be that guy, but I bet someone somewhere did the math of how much extra profit they can get from people having their device bricked and just getting a new one vs how many of them actually do the warranty claim
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since this battery update was forced on laptops originally released in 2020, this issue has also bricked hardware outside of the warranty window, when previously users could simply send in the laptop for a free repair.
I hope HP aren't surprised when they get accosted with bricked laptops through their execs' windshields at random intervals...
If i knew of any execs near where i live they would be getting a front row seat to my reenactment of the Office Space printer scene.
It's rare for me to viscerally hate someone just for existing, but if i met an HP exec I would have to exert quite a bit of self control to not beat them until I lost feeling in my hands
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After the first 4 words of the title I was assuming it was intentional - Glad it doesn't seem to be, but HP's reputation is just that bad.
HP expanding their bad practices from printers to PCs now?
Microsoft should also be to blame here. Sending BIOS updates via automatic windows updates should not be a thing.
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Ugh. Microsoft really trying to advertise for Linux again
on these laptops you can update bios from bios, just needs to be connected via ethernet
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My wife's Elitebook was also bricked by the most recent forced BIOS update.
Why anyone buys HP shit these days is beyond me. So many better options.
I have a no HP policy because of their printers and a no Samsung policy because of their TVs.
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after Windows pushes new firmware
If a Linux distro pushed bad HP firmware, people would be blaming the Linux distro. Why does Microsoft get a free pass?
I think it's HP that pushed the update though. So I'm guessing that it's their driver that they broke not windows in general.
It's not really Microsoft's fault, they're just delivering what HP releases via the firmware update channel.
I mean, Microsoft are a bag of dicks, but not on this one.
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HP laptops are garbage. This is the hinge of my HP X360 laptop after 6 months of occasional use: https://i.imgur.com/LhZWBIt.jpg
Damn that laptop is unhinged
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At a business we had an hp laptop for 6 months before it bricked. We sent in for warranty, they sent it back saying we broke it in a noncovered way
It was a workstation on a table top that never had any food etc near us. Even with appeals they will not fix it. My IT guy is now aware we do not do business with them.
This happened to me on my daughters Lenovo. Got a windows update overnight. Updated while traveling in the car. Wouldn't boot. Apparently the BIOS updated and there was no fix. Had to send gor a replacement under warranty. Sent it off, took 8 weeks to get it back. Wasn't even the same serial number, just a replacement with no sdd.
On the offhand chance that someone with a bricked HP laptop stumbles here looking for what to do (prob via smartphone or public library computer),
- I'd recommend on removing the M.2 SSD (gumslice-shaped PCB that contains your data) to protect your data
- this can be found by googling your laptop's serial number and looking for the manual, after downloading the PDF file you'll be able to open it with Firefox
- you'll typically need a philips-head screwdriver to remove the laptop's case and remove the SSD
I'm assuming the users might be coming from Windows
hopefully this helps someone out there
To expand: said M.2 SSD contains all of your data, and can be plugged into another computer to recover it, put it on a USB drive or upload it to an online drive. A local PC repair shop is going to be unable to make the PC work again at present, but they can help you with extracting the SDD and your data for less than $100.
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Microsoft has no business forcing firmware updates on anything. This is something HP should have handled. Those laptops are THEIR products, not Microsoft's.
This is something HP should have handled.
If a bad update is rolled out then it's the responsibility of the software maker partner (HP) and the distributor (Microsoft), not just one or the other.
Those laptops are THEIR products, not Microsoft’s.
Both Microsoft and HP have branding on their laptops and a responsibility post-sale for the reliability of their systems. Hardware, firmware and OS responsibilities are all party to this chain of failure.
Those laptops are THEIR products, not Microsoft’s.
Microsoft: All your PC are belong to us.
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we've had clients have their dell systems bricked from bios updates. it's not just hp.
at least dell (reluctantly) offered free repairs, even out of warranty, on those models at the time. 'repair' being motherboard swap plus shipping both ways if not covered by an onsite warranty plan.
i still have one of those 'repaired' systems here. user gave it to us years after it got fixed. it just sat, unused, once they got it back as they bought a new one due to the lengthy turnaround they were quoted.
I swear when it comes to forced updates of any kind it seems like this kind of outcome is always inevitable. There will at some point always be a bad update.
I had Windows push a bios update on my HP omen desktop. It completed the update but wouldn't get back up after restart. The fans went crazy for a moment and then it was dead. Luckily I had warranty left. They replaced processor and motherboard. Good job HP/Microsoft.
HP is the one responsible here, Windows is just the delivery service HP uses to deliver their updates.
I’m all for hating on Microsoft, but you don’t blame the UPS driver for delivering a bomb to your house.
Since when does Windows Update touch the BIOS? How is that even possible?
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This is interesting. Not a lawyer, but I'd encourage anyone in Australia to demand a free repair under Australian Consumer Law because the company bricked the laptop. I'd guess it would fall under the Acceptable Quality consumer guarantee, since the fault was caused directly by the manufacturer.
Not sure how you'd go about proving that, but you could then just take it to your state tribunal, like VCAt in Victoria and file a small claim.
Not a lawyer, not legal advice, but something to think about if you're in this situation.
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