this post was submitted on 22 Jun 2024
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[–] [email protected] 97 points 4 months ago

Some guy opened like 10 jira tickets asking a bunch of data that is already available for them on the BI. I show it how to extract it himself, and then marked all the other ones as duplicated and for a moment I felt myself as an stackoverflow mod.

[–] lowleveldata 59 points 4 months ago (3 children)

I don't think that's how the where clause works

[–] [email protected] 76 points 4 months ago

The original didn't have the where clause. Post by Seth Rosen on X/Twitter: Them: Can you just quickly pull this data for me? Me: Sure, let me just: SELECT * FROM some_ideal_clean_and_pristine.table_that_you_think_exists

[–] [email protected] 24 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Yeah, that's more appropriate for a WHEN clause or possibly even a WHOM

[–] [email protected] 19 points 4 months ago (1 children)

There's a WHOM keyword in SQL?

[–] [email protected] 20 points 4 months ago

Hopefully they'll one day allow WHENCE as an alias of FROM

[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 months ago

I'm still waiting for the WHY clause

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago

Just chuck an =1 at the end, bam

[–] [email protected] 43 points 4 months ago (1 children)

If I had a cookie for every time someone asked me if I could pull together some obscure metric during a 30 minute meeting I’d have the beetus

[–] [email protected] 23 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Same. Especially since I've been building EDWs for most of my career. People are always surprised that it actually takes time to integrate with different systems.

"What do you mean you can't just pull all the data out of this system that we don't have database access to and are still building out the APIs?"

I kid... The people asking for stuff don't know what backend databases and APIs are.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 4 months ago

Just hit the magic ETL lever, what’s the big deal?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I mean without documentation… what is an API?

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[–] [email protected] 34 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Heres a great idea write a frontend that u can type a human request in then pass that to chatgpt to generate an appropriate sql query then automatically send it. What could possibly go wrong.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago

This is sarcasm, right? Right??

[–] [email protected] 32 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (4 children)

A girl I've dated for a while worked as photographer for live events reportage, clocking even thousand shots for event and saving at least a hundred of them for the job, and she told me rather often she was being later contacted by the client, or someone of his entourage, or even some other person from the public, months past the event and asking if she could send them e.g. "that picture where I'm standing with that friend of mine wearing a white shirt...", and all that of course without even being able to tell her the actual date of the event.

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[–] __init__ 26 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Well, can you just give me access to the database then?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

*Acess granted to the homologation DB that haven't been fully updated since 2018*

[–] [email protected] 25 points 4 months ago

That’s not an unreasonable request unless the manager is a dumb asshole and doesn’t understand that such request can take more than one day and other tasks will suffer because of it. Done it dozens of times by request of my immediate manager.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago (6 children)

You can make an unstructured database? I thought the S in SQL stood for "structured", that it was built into the language itself or something.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 4 months ago

“Structured” refers to the query language.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 4 months ago

SQL doesn't actually enforce the database to be normalized at all.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago (5 children)

Database is organized collection of data, so a disk full of porn in different formats from json to mp4 can be a database, as long as it's organized in some way

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I am interested in your json porn.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)
{
  "act1": {
    "position": "reverse cowgirl"
    "etc...": {}
  }
}

Not sure what you expected

Edit: also found this https://json-porn.com/

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago

Oh God, don't watch the etc porn! You'll never be able to unsee it...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

It's so straight. I prefer yaml porn

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

For real. Numbers are strings? Yeah, okay.

YAML is better. UCL porn though. 🥵 Things are getting niche when UCL shows up.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Doesn't it stand for "supposed to be structured"?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago
[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

It is "structured" but not well architectured/designed/structured

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

You would be amazed!

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I mean, if you're really good at SQL these requests are doable in 10-30m + the time it takes to run and export.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 4 months ago (2 children)

It’s not just being good at SQL, it’s knowing the data and relationships therein.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Yep, being familiar with the data model is 98% of the effort.

The remaining 2% is the query

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The fun comes when there is no actual data model. All in all, I'd say being familiar with the data model is about 60% of my job. 35% is building queries and query scripts for people who need regular exports. 5% is running after other people's fuckups.

Strap in, because this is a ride.

There is a raw database from a decade-and-a-half old app, which I get to access through a layer of views that does some joining, but not all, with absolutely no documentation on how the original database is structured or where things are pulled from or what anything refers to. No data dictionary, no list or map of key relations, some objects are mapped in two different views, no semantic naming of columns.

If you want to want to query order part delegations by who they're assigned to (Recipient in the app) you need to use the foreign key RefAssignmentUnit. The "Assignment" unit that did the delegation is just RefUnit. If you have orders that were created by a salesperson on behalf of a customer, OrderingPerson (also a foreign key, but not named Ref-) is the customer, while OrderingPerson2 is the salesperson that entered the order. Don't confuse that with Creator, which for orders created through the web form is usually a technical user, unless the salesperson is one of the veterans that use the direct app in which case it'll be the salesperson while OrderingPerson2 is null.

Also, we have many-to-many relationships that are mapped through reference tables... whose columns are named object and reference for each and every one. Have fun trying to memorize which refers to which so you don't need to look it up every damn time.

Create my own views to clean this up? Nope, only the third party service providers for the app can do that, and they don't wanna. Our internal app admin (singular) can use some awkward tool to generate those views, but there's no reverse lookup to see what a given column refers to. Also, they have no concept for what actually constitutes a good model because they're not really familiar with the database, just with the app.

Get my own serverless DB to create views that query the original DB? No can do, you'd need to order a whole server and that's pricy.
Get a cloud DB? Sure, but it will be managed by the cloud team and if you want to have or edit custom views, you'll get to create a project request. They'll put it in the backlog and work it into some future sprint.

Get literally any tool that allows me to efficiently create reusable data prep so I don't have to copy & paste the base transformations needed for a given query every fucking time and if the source DB ever changes I need to update all my query scripts? If you can somehow squeeze the time to prepare a convincing pitch - a full Power Point presentation, of course - between all your tedious and redundant query preparation and script maintenance, find a management sponsor willing to hear you out and hopefully propose your request to their superiors. Best case: It becomes a whole project - alternatives will have to be considered first, implications, security, costs, and you'll be the one having to assemble and present that information to management only to have some responsible person point out that it would actually be the remit of a different team... that also works in sprints, has a backlog and will give you no control over your prep.

And obviously, the app provider doesn't give us any advance notice of just what will change in the DB with the next update. We only learn that when a view breaks. The app admin can use the tool to refresh the affected views then, while I scramble to determine all the scripts that need to be updated and copy&paste the fix. If a user has been granted their own access to the database, odds are they'll come crying to me when their modified versions of my queries break.

There is a lot I like about my job, I acknowledge the difficulties of a historically grown system and service contracts, but the rigid and antiquated corporate culture can go take a long walk off a short pier.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

...you have my condolences

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Thank you. Funny enough, just today I chatted with a colleague that mentioned one of the tools was technically available to us, but actually not approved for use. Ordering it wouldn't be an issue, but getting it signed off would be quite the chore.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

And then managers go "why does shadow IT exist?"

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago

Even then, 5 "quick" requests takes up most of your day

[–] firelizzard 4 points 4 months ago

If I designed the schema it is most certainly going to be structured. Unstructured databases are awful.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago

I got pretty good at pulling sql data together from multiple tables using joins at a prior job, but no job before or since had data that easily accessible.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago

Even when you give them the tools to pull the data themselves like Tableau they'll still ask you to pull the data for them.

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