this post was submitted on 14 Jun 2024
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A British man is ridiculously attempting to sue Apple following a divorce, caused by his wife finding messages to a prostitute he deleted from his iPhone that were still accessible on an iMac. 

In the last years of his marriage, a man referred to as "Richard" started to use the services of prostitutes, without his wife's knowledge. To try and keep the communications secret, he used iMessages on his iPhone, but then deleted the messages. 

Despite being careful on his iPhone to cover his tracks, he didn't count on Apple's ecosystem automatically synchronizing his messaging history with the family iMac. Apparently, he wasn't careful enough to use Family Sharing for iCloud, or discrete user accounts on the Mac.

The Times reports the wife saw the message when she opened iMessage on the iMac. She also saw years of messages to prostitutes, revealing a long period of infidelity by her husband.

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[–] [email protected] 148 points 4 months ago (6 children)

I knew a guy when I served in the US military who got caught cheating in a semi-related way. He got assigned to a base in a new state and his wife refused to relocate their whole family for the few years he'd be assigned there, so he went by himself, leaving his wife and kids in his home state.

Turns out, he was sexting one of his younger subordinates at work. One of his daughters found out when she tried to use an old tablet and found out his account was still synced to it. She saw all his texts updating in real time.

He was ultra-conservative and didn't believe in divorce, so he was doing everything he could to save his marriage. His wife forced him to install security cameras in every room of his apartment and banned him from going anywhere after work. She knew his schedule and expected him home immediately after work ended. He was basically on house arrest until his job was done and he could move home.

The last I heard, he told his wife the landlord needed to paint the walls, so he removed all the cameras, dunked them in the bathtub, then played dumb when none of them would work when he set them back up again. He was seen inviting young women over to his apartment after that. So, you know... he didn't learn his lesson.

[–] [email protected] 92 points 4 months ago (1 children)

His wife forced him to install security cameras in every room of his apartment and banned him from going anywhere after work. She knew his schedule and expected him home immediately after work ended.

This is so toxic. Not saying cheaters get what they deserve but if you can't trust your husband, I think you have bigger problems than infidelity.

[–] [email protected] 77 points 4 months ago (5 children)

That's conservatism for ya, can't divorce and just be happier people for it because sky daddy might be mad

[–] [email protected] 12 points 4 months ago (1 children)

It's probably mostly due to not wanting to pay spousal support and control issues.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Opposite if they're military. She gets benefits for being his wife. His income drops if divorced.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago

There are two people using resources. Should've broadened my set, let me revise that now: greed and control issues. Thanks for the catch.

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[–] [email protected] 79 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Divorce is sin, side chicks are fine. Got it.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 4 months ago (1 children)

You wouldn't believe how many people think like that, unless it's the woman caught out.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Well of course she can’t have side chicks. Homosexuality is a sin. Unless he does it

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

I found out my ex of 12 years was cheating in a similar matter. For some reason she liked taking screenshot of conversations, I had set up Amazon pictures auto backup on her phone at her request cause she was afraid of losing 16 years of pictures. One day I was looking through the backups cause my phone was also set up and I was looking for an old picture I no longer had on my phone. I ended up finding plenty of screenshot of her texts with an old school boyfriend she had been cheating on me with for almost 2 years. Nothing physical as far as I could tell but I can't say for certain it didn't happen, emotional cheating is just as bad for me anyways.
I also saw that some screenshot were from Instagram and I knew her tablet was logged in so I checked and it was all there. Worst part was, that she would often be texting him when we were together doing things and basically telling him she wish she was there. Worst 3 months of my life while I got my ducks in a row so I could leave without issue.

I found out she met him at least twice on her yearly trips back to her home country.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I'm so sorry. I've been in a similar situation and I know how it just makes you feel gutted. I'm glad you're free of someone like that, though.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago (3 children)

I just can't understand why it's up to the husband to say no divorce while he cheats? Like what position of power does he have?

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[–] [email protected] 123 points 4 months ago (4 children)

The article tries to say that this is ridiculous, but I don't see it.

Sure, he's a cheater, and he got caught. Not particularly sympathetic.

But, Apple markets their products as privacy-respecting, he deleted something he wanted to keep secret, and his Apple products betrayed him and revealed his secret to someone else, resulting in real-world consequences.

Apple should be held to account for the privacy violation at the very least.

[–] [email protected] 63 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Except he used the same account for his prostitute texting device as for the family pc.
It's simple user error. You can't have privacy from someone else who shares the same login.

[–] [email protected] 64 points 4 months ago (6 children)

I don't have any Apple devices so I don't understand why deleting the message from one device doesn't delete it from another. What is the point of a sync in that case?

[–] [email protected] 19 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Deleting messages from an iPhone WILL delete them from other devices - assuming you’ve opted to let it to do that, and then even still, there may be a delay until the next sync happens.

I’ve deleted messages on my iPhone and they’ll linger on my MacBook for a good while, depending on circumstances. (ie, if the MacBook wasn’t on network when the messages were deleted).

[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 months ago

Yep, instant sync is never a guarantee. There still has to be a queue for command messages along with authentication plus authorization of said commands. And just like you said, you must be connected to a network that then can reach their cloud to even receive the command queue.

I run a sync service between multiple Active Directory domains as a result of a merger and the directories haven't been cutover yet. Along with this sync is a password sync that is normally instant. Most of the times (> 90%), less than a second. Sometimes 3 seconds. Other times? 2 minutes. Even when things are within the same LAN, there's the possibility of a backed up queue.

So yeah, this is purely on him trusting the sync implicitly and not verifying. In my case, I trust it too but will on occasion have to assist users because it's not infallible. Karma got him and I have zero sympathy.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago (1 children)

revealed his secret to someone else

I generally don't like Apple, but I think crying about privacy violation because someone you're willingly sharing your account with saw your stuff is not reasonable.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago (10 children)

My kid sometimes takes pictures of my SO naked because they know how to access the camera. My SO deletes them as soon as they find them. If those pictures were synced to another computer, the expectation is that those pictures would be deleted from that other computer as well. Not deleting those pictures on the other computer is absolutely a privacy concern.

That's the case here as well. It's reasonable to think of iMessage as one blob of data, where deleting from one device deletes all copies from other devices. In Apple jargon, it should "just work." If it doesn't "just work" as a reasonable person would expect and that results in damages, I think it's reasonable for Apple to share in those damages.

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[–] [email protected] 102 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

If I have multiple devices synced, and I delete something from one of them, it's not unreasonable to think it should be deleted from all of them.

For example, a shared calendar item on my phone, tablet and laptop. If I delete it on one, it should be deleted from all of them.

If Apple synced the messages, but not the delete operation, yeah... that's a problem.

But it's also on the guy for setting up/not disabling sharing in the first place.

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[–] [email protected] 79 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

I know this wasn't iMessage per se (altho its par for the course for that curs-ed app) but this serves as a good reminder for posterity.

Its actually one of the issues with iCloud and the signin process because if you do the normal thing trying to sign into your account anywhere outside of AppStore, it automaticaly opts you in to iCloud and its showtime for all your data in terms of transit and restoring it and activating all of the crappy, leaky things like iMessage and Backup in addition to all 500+ apps you have that automatically synced themself the moment you opened and all times you used them if you didn't de-toggle and delete whatever it shared up to that point

[–] [email protected] 37 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

All he had to do was put his wife on a different account on the Mac or use another messenger on his phone. I don’t see iMessage as being “leaky” in this instance. His messages didn’t appear anywhere they weren’t supposed to from a technical perspective. He used the same account on the Mac and iPhone, syncing messages worked as advertised. I’d expect this to happen with any message sync feature, it’s not iMessage specific.

It’s like complaining that your wife found out your were cheating because you used FB messenger, yet didn’t create a separate login for your wife on your Linux desktop, and the sole account’s web browser is logged in to your Facebook. He fucked up, that’s poor computer security to let someone else use your account. A major Mac feature is a lot of activity is easily shared across devices you’re logged into. Photos, messages, calendar, reminders, all sorts of things. This tells me to be careful where I log in with my iCloud account and who uses it. Why would you not have a separate login for your wife, especially if you’re fucking around on her and she regularly uses that computer?

[–] [email protected] 17 points 4 months ago

This is 100% "I don't understand technology, so it's all Apple's fault!"

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago (10 children)

I don't like apple either, but in this case you're right. I have signal on my phone and on my linux machines, if I share those computers with someone else and let them use the same user, they can open signal and see my messages. The guy in the article is an idiot.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Doesn't the deletion of a conversation propagate to all devices though?

That's what didn't happen here that this guy apparently assumed did happen

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago (6 children)

Isn’t messages in iCloud off by default? I feel like I had to actively enable this in a preference panel.

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[–] [email protected] 73 points 4 months ago (5 children)
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[–] [email protected] 69 points 4 months ago (1 children)

a man referred to as "Richard"

Heh.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 4 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 months ago (2 children)
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[–] [email protected] 59 points 4 months ago (9 children)

it doesn't sound ridiculous to me. regardless of the backstory, the issue was that he deleted something and it didn't work. it could have been a password or picture of his balls or something. Apple should pay up

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 4 months ago

Geez, has this dude never watched a crime drama before? If you’re gonna be doing bad shit at LEAST get a burner phone. 🙄🙄🙄

[–] [email protected] 25 points 4 months ago (2 children)

What an idiot on multiple accounts.

[–] [email protected] 53 points 4 months ago

No that's the problem, he was an idiot with a single account.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 4 months ago

No no you see, the issue was precisely the lack of multiple accounts

[–] [email protected] 23 points 4 months ago (3 children)

On the one hand, I don't know that it's fair to sue a company over your poor understanding of technology, or user error. On the other hand, if he worked for DARPA and was using imessage to talk to his boss or his team about a project that was then leaked or sold by someone living in his home who had access to his home laptop because he didn't know that the messages he deleted weren't deleted in real time, and he was fired from his job, that seems like something the company should make very clear when deleting the messages in the first place. A simple warning "Delete this message? Please be aware that deletion is not instantaneously across devices." Would do.

Incognito mode actually has to tell users that it doesn't prevent your ISP from seeing what you Google or what websites you visit while using it. They literally had to add a notification so people would know because people didn't know.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

The way iMessage works is really broken. It's like back in the old days when email was done by POP, so you would have to delete the email separately on both your laptop and your desktop otherwise you'd have inconsistencies.

Apple has never put any effort into it. Virtually every other messaging system is superior. People only used it because SMS was so limited back in the day but now there's no reason for it to exist.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

As many have recently discovered, if infidelity occurs, it's the phone makers fault.

https://lemdro.id/post/9738136

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/new-apple-ios18-feature-meant-banking-privacy-makes-it-easier-cheaters-hide-dating-apps-1724954

Unveiled at the recent WWDC, iOS 18 includes a much-discussed "hide and lock apps" feature that some worry could be misused for privacy concerns related to infidelity.

Critics have dubbed the new feature "a cheater's paradise" due to its ability to hide or lock apps on the iPhone home screen, potentially concealing private hobbies and information.

While Apple's promotion highlights the feature's ability to safeguard banking apps and prevent unauthorized purchases on Amazon, many users perceive it as facilitating infidelity. The new feature ignited a firestorm on social media, with divided opinions.

"Thanks Apple. I will be trying to hide online dating app from my wife," one X user shared. "With lock app and hide app, I can finally do it." Other users joked that the feature "is going to break up relationships."

/s

[–] MagicShel 22 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Anyone who is worried about this feature is in a toxic relationship. And that's not the phone's fault.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Declaring it a "very brutal way" for his wife to find out, he believes that there could've been a chance of the marriage continuing had he been able to "talk to her rationally."

I'm not sure if he means he could continue his behaviour without being caught or if he planned on lying and saying it was a one time thing. Either way I highly doubt he had any plans to be honest.

The "talk to her rationally" bit is hilarious. Yes I've been expensively unfaithful, have possibly been exposing you to a number of diseases without your knowledge, and have been physically unavailable regularly for years. What self respecting person wouldn't "rationally" see that as perfectly acceptable! /s

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Not OK with his behaviour, definitely OK with Apple coughing up 100 million quid for the bloke and his wife

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Dunno how it is Apples fault that he didn't take the time to understand how the tools that he uses work.

If I plow my car into a crowd of people because I mistake the gas for the brake that is not GM's fault.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

The best part is that even if Apple is found liable, the asshole only gets some money. From here on out he will be known as the asshole that he is!

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Just get one of the free texting apps or get a burner. Dumb people.

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