this post was submitted on 16 Apr 2024
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[–] [email protected] 162 points 8 months ago (6 children)

Idk if anyone could do half the job Larian did.

[–] [email protected] 109 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I have a feeling this will just be a cash grab to milk the IP for as much as they can.

[–] [email protected] 56 points 8 months ago (5 children)

Imagine if bg4 is a mobile game with micro transactions? Hasbro would totally do it

[–] [email protected] 28 points 8 months ago

Don't you guys have phones‽

[–] [email protected] 26 points 8 months ago

Is that the corpse of blizzard being piloted by Activision I hear??

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

The Gates of Baldarian 4: Candy Maze Puzzles

[–] [email protected] 28 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

Obsidian could maybe, they did a couple classic BG-style Infinity Engine games in Pillars of Eternity I & II.

...but that's a little bit like a step back/down from what we saw in BG3.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

One huge advantage Larian had was years of experience making games in this genre, and I doubt many other studios have that sort of corporate knowledge. Obsidian may be the only sizable one that comes close. Maybe Beamdog too, as they are responsible for the Enhanced Editions of all the old Infinity Engine games, including some original content.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

Please don't let Beamdog near it. I like the UI and QoL improvements in the EEs and all, but by god they should not be writing for a mainline BG entry.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago

What’s up with Obsidian these days? Outer Worlds was a really fun empty box. I enjoyed it like a Fallout game, but after ~30 hours I was done. The hype for that game was setting it up to be “the better Fallout”, but alas, the whole thing just felt rushed and empty to me.

I love their old games and I’m tentatively excited about OW2, but I’d be lying if I said I haven’t lost some faith.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago (8 children)

I have full faith in Tactical Adventures. Solasta is the closest translation of tabletop D&D to CRPG ever made IMO. All they need is a better than indie budget and permissions to use the full license and content instead of just the SRD.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The gameplay is good but from what I played, outside of combat, it was a bit lackluster, and rations were a pain when I played. Though it's hard not to compare it to BG3 in that regard. I did like Larian's system to interact with the environment and liquids too that made some battles more dynamic. Maybe there's more of that is Solasta than I saw too, I didn't get far, should give it another go, it has solid combat which is at least half of a good DnD game.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

You need to install the unfinished business mod to really make Solasta shine. It’s… unofficially endorsed by the devs (in the sense that the UB mod discord channel is hosted on the official Solasta discord). It adds races, subclasses, and more to bring the game fully in-line with tabletop options, including multi-classing.

Besides that, while the official campaign is decent enough, some custom campaigns are incredible, like full games in and of themselves, and some take more advantage of the game engine and dialogue options than the official campaign.

To me, Baldur’s Gate 3 is an interesting experiment, but in terms of gameplay it’s just not D&D. It’s a weird relationship sim with some (very) loose D&D mechanics. It has fun moments but the game is inconsistent, buggy, and generally becomes very un-fun, especially in multiplayer.

BG3 is very much a Larian game with D&D trappings, not a D&D game just made by Larian, if that makes sense.

I put something like 50-60 hours into BG3 and just couldn’t be bothered to finish it, stalled out once in act 2, and again on a second attempt in act 1. By contrast, I’ve got over 500 hours and counting in Solasta.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago (1 children)

BG3 being less dnd and more larion is a major win. It's the only reason it is when vaguely playable, imo. 5e is an absolute train wreck of a system.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago (4 children)

This is hyperbole for sure. What could possibly be that bad about 5e?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago (20 children)

Hahaha oh your poor soul you don't know what you risk conjuring up with a question like that.

I have to write this all out in a blog post so I can just link it one day.

The core mechanic of 1d20+stuff produces flat probability. Every outcome on the die is equally likely. That's ridiculous. Go throw some darts at a dart board. Do you get an equal distribution around the board? Just as many hit the floor as the bullseye? No. So the underlying math is kind of trash.

The entire game is predicated on its rest cadence. You're expected to have like 5-8 medium encounters and then take a long rest. This generates a ton of problems for pacing and balance. Chief among them, most people don't want to play that way. Polls show people typically do like one fight per rest. Welp. Now all your long rest classes are over performing and your short rest classes suck.

Don't even start with "not every encounter has to be a fight". Don't even fucking start. Most people can't consistently come up with interesting non combat encounters in DND that tax resources the same way fights do. There are no real social conflict rules, for example, as mentioned below.

But even if you do somehow manage to do the suggested amount of encounters per rest, that severely limits the pacing of the story. There are so many hacks and variants to try to fix this. Gritty realism, sanctuary resting, heroic mode. They're all bandaids on a poor foundation.

The magic system is trash. It's just fucking bad. It had no real internal consistency. Every spell is bespoke. What's the difference between a third level spell and a fourth level? Fuck if I know. Can you make your own spells? Not really. Can you be creative with spells? Ehh kind of but they tend to be very specific about what they do, with few inputs.

Also like the way magic works is boring. There's no real flavor. You say you cast the spell and check off the box, and it happens. Maybe you need a material component. That's about it. It's shallow as heck. It's also weird that rangers paladins wizards clerics arcane-tricksters all basically have magic that works the same way. You could do so much more.

The social system I would say it was trash if it existed. You meet a pack of bandits in the pass. You want to fight them. The rules have a lot to say here. Hit points, armor, saves, actions and reactions, equipment, etc. Ok wait, you want to scare them off with your words instead. Well get fucked, the book has some vague guidelines that quickly turn into "the dm decides".

There are very few decisions to make about your character. Species and class. Maybe a feat or two depending on how long you play, but those compete with ASIs, and most games don't even get to 8th level. Subclasses sometimes have a few things to pick, but sometimes you literally get zero choices.

The skill system is extremely basic and you can't really specialize unless you're a class with expertise, and even then your options are kind of limited.

Magic items also have no real internal consistency. Why is the flying broom a like uncommon item despite being extremely powerful? Who knows.

Low level combat tends to also be very "I move and attack once". Some DMs might give you bonuses for taking advantage of the environment, but that's not well defined. It could be. It's not. Also making a single attack that has a like 40% chance of doing absolutely nothing sucks.

The main strengths of DND are brand recognition, and it's shallow enough that you can't really fuck up a character. Every human fighter is basically the same mechanically, which means your idiot 10 year old brother can play. But that also means you don't really have much depth to explore.

Pretty much every other part of the game is bad, under baked, or not suited for general purpose RPG stuff.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago (2 children)

As someone who's only ever played 5e, I ask, what would you say is a better? PF? That's the one I hear a lot.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (4 children)

The economy is non-existent, actual balancing is literally impossible, you can't make a character yours (reflavoring your eldritch blast doesn't count), so many rules just don't exist or are on some random designers Twitter account instead of the damn books. If you want to argue it's a simple system; it isn't, it's stupidly convoluted for how little it actually offers.

Edit: look at Pathfinder (chosen because it's the closest comparison); it actually gives DMs a rough guide to how much money a player should be expected to have at any level, a decent idea of what players should fight in an encounter (2e even tightened that math up even more), a myriad of ways to customize your character on a real mechanical level, and all the rules are easily found on the same online resource. 5e doesn't do any of that.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago (5 children)

it's an aggressively mediocre system that's had years of a huge community polishing it to a mirror shine.

You can praise it for the community content, or go off-book like you can with any other system, but that's applicable to any system with the same community size.

Whatever you look for in it it's lacking in comparison to another system. Tactical combat? PF2e. Rules light? Worlds without number.

It's a decent middle ground of a system only because of community hard work. But that's only for the GM side. Players still need to deal with the poor character creation, unless they get a lot of support from their GM.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago

To each their own on BG3, I used to play number of tabletop RPG games (many years ago now but a variety) and to me BG3 gives you enough options to feel like you can play as your character rather than just walk between combats, as well as avariety of ways to solve issues. Watching YouTube plays amazes me on the says other people solve the issue. I also used to play the old DnD PC games and it feels much better from my perspective, so that's probably sways me.

I can see your view but to me BG3 is more intended as a single player game, especially with the companion interactions, so I can see why multiplayer would be lacking. Thankfully I haven't had many bugs but have heard of them. For reference I have about 120 hours after trying beta a few goes and only a bit in act 2 so it's a favorite of mine and am biased.

Thank you for the recommendation on the mod, I will definitely give that a try and see how the game plays. I keep meaning to reinstall anyways and new mods always give more incentive.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I think Owlcat makes fantastic dnd games. They made Pathfinder: Kingmaker, Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous, and Rogue Trader. They could certainly do more than half as good as Larian. However, their big problem with pathfinder games is that they are stupid long and kinda bog down with so so so many items and talents in the late game.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

Yeah. I'd abandon the series until someone can do a high quality one that's different though it's not a clear comparison.

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[–] [email protected] 87 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)
  1. Old series that has a decent following of mostly niche dedicated fans is left to sit without a new installment for many years.

  2. New title is announced. It's sells gang-busters and flips the community on its head.

  3. Corporate Executives prioritize short term profits and begin planning a quick and easy cash grab. !

  4. Second new installment comes out. It is a shell of the previous title with the soul sucked clean out.

  5. Fans are dissapointed and outside of a small niche following the game series falls into obscurity.

  6. Repeat.

! we are here right now

Look.. Maybe BG4 will be good. But after watching this exact cycle play out over and over again for the past decade I'm not sure how you can expect anything else.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 8 months ago (4 children)

When will the business world realize that anything business majors are given control of turns to shit. Like I know that it's not impossible for a AAA game to be good but I also know that most companies that can handle that kind of a budget are run by people who just think gamers love throwing money at anything labeled "video game", proved by so many out of touch quotes.

Like the BlizzCon "don't you have phones?" showed that Blizzard didn't even realize that their main demographic and shitty f2p phone games didn't have much overlap.

Or EA's "sense of satisfaction" was transparent when they give a paid path to skip a ridiculously tuned grind.

Or Ubisoft's "AAAA" said they hadn't even noticed that "AAA" was starting to be considered synonymous with "shit".

The funny part is that they aren't even wrong about the potential to make a lot of money from video games, it's just not by using business major tricks to extract the maximum short term gains or approaching making a video game by thinking about how to make the most money from it.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I remember when Disney fired Avalanche from Disney Infinity.... Apparently some guy at Disney learned how cheap it was to make Mobile Games and how much money they made, erroneously assuming that this was where the gaming market was going and how development studios would soon be "Out of jobs" with how "Simple" it was getting....

He was a god damn moron

God, "Do you guys not have phones?" was just.. embarrassing, the fact that they needed to be asked if this was an April Fools joke before the crowd understood what was happening is... yeesh

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 8 months ago (1 children)

BG4 is going to be BGOnline 😂

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, but it's a straight terrible port from a mobile game with a solid gacha foundation and Baldur's Gate skins tacked on. Also you need to subscribe and pay a weekly fee to get access to the premium lockboxes that may or may not (spoiler: they do not) give you the characters/skins/whatever that you actually came for. Everything is time-gated unless you pay more of the premium currency to be allowed to grind more for a chance that won't proc anyway unless you go into debt to buy enough crates.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (3 children)

Let's see ~~Paul Allen's~~ Owl Cat's ~~card~~ Baldur's Gate.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago (1 children)

WotC like FEED ME A STRAY DEV

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago

Please no, i want owlcat to work on good things. Things very, very far removed from dnd.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 8 months ago

I’m good. Not really interested in supporting Hasbro after all that’s happened since BG3 released.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 8 months ago (1 children)

So...a new Dark Alliance game is up next?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

Don't... Don't give me hope...

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago

Okay. I mean that's fine but I won't be buying shit until after it comes out and has reviews.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago

RIP Baldur's Gate, at least you had one final hurrah with 3

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago

It's gonna be blizzard isn't it...

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