this post was submitted on 21 Mar 2024
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[–] snaggen 142 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (5 children)

Didn't they switch to a license with stronger mechanisms to keep the source available? SSPL, is basically AGPL but have even stronger protection from large corperations to use the code in their data centers without contributing the changes back. This is basically a move to prevent AWS/Google/Microsoft/et al, from leaching on the contributors work without giving anything back.

Or am I reading this wrong?

EDIT: Note, that the Mastodon account is to an AWS employee.... so for him, this might be bad, since it no longer allows them to have their own internal fork without contributing back. Now, they will need to use a real for and maintain that them selves without leaching on the redis contributors.

[–] snaggen 84 points 7 months ago

I suggest an alternative title to this post: AWS employee is mad since Redis change license to prevent them from leaching

[–] [email protected] 41 points 7 months ago (2 children)

The restriction doesn't only apply to large corporations, it applies to everybody. It restricts what you can do with it so it breaks the fundamental freedoms that make up "FOSS". As an immediate result it will be removed from Fedora and Debian because they don't consider SSPL/RSAL to be FOSS:

https://gitlab.com/fedora/legal/fedora-license-data/-/issues/497

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=915537#15

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago (1 children)

it breaks the fundamental freedoms that make up "FOSS"

Why? All the license says is that if you provide it as a service you must release the source code.

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 7 months ago (6 children)

They could just use AGPL. Amazon would need to contribute back, but with no restrictions on who and how can run it. Current licence has a clause that prevents any providing of the software on the network.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Weirdly OSI doesn't classify the SSPL as an open-source license because it doesn't guarantee "the right to make use of the program for any field of endeavor", calling it a fauxpen license. I don't think the FSF has commented on the license, though I would be curious what they say about it.

I imagine they consider it to not give the right to make use of the program for any field of endeavor, because providing the source of the entire stack needed to run the service you provide makes it impossible for users to host their service on stuff like AWS, since it is proprietary.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago

I think checking the sponsors page for OSI will be informative.

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[–] [email protected] 113 points 7 months ago (2 children)

For the record. The SSPL that Redis switched to while technically not recognized by the OSI really isn’t bad at all.

It’s exactly like the AGPL except even more “powerful”. Under the SSPL if you host redis as a paid service you would have to open source the tooling you use to manage those hosted instances of redis.

I don’t see why anyone but hyper scalers would object. It’s a shame that the OSI didn’t adopt it.

[–] [email protected] 43 points 7 months ago (6 children)

From what I've understood SSPL is a ridiculously ambiguous license, it's extreme copyleft. It's not just "open source the tooling you use to host the software", it can also be interpreted to mean "open source all the hardware and firmware you use to host the software". No one wants to risk going to court for that so corporate wants to use SSPL licensed software.

AGPL is the best license you can go for IMO.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

The ambiguity is a valid concern. Hopefully the next version addresses this a bit better. This being said mega corps will call anything they can’t abuse for profit “extreme”. So if they think it’s extreme that just means we are on the right track.

[–] pkill 6 points 7 months ago (1 children)

lmao imagine allowing to run your software only on RISC-V boxes basically, pretty based but also a shoot in the foot in terms of acquiring any major funding

[–] [email protected] 16 points 7 months ago

To be fair the license is not meant to cause this and has never been enforced like this. The license was written for software tooling.

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[–] [email protected] 67 points 7 months ago (14 children)

https://redis.com/blog/redis-adopts-dual-source-available-licensing/

This is the announcement.

This is a disappointing outcome but one that I think has been coming for a while. Amazon has profited off of Redis without giving much back for quite a while (at least I recall this being a complaint of the Redis folks, perhaps others have evidence to the contrary).

This is pretty clearly an effort to bring AWS to the table for negotiations.

[–] lysdexic 16 points 7 months ago (4 children)

${CORPORATION} has profited off of Redis without giving much back (...)

I don't understand this blend of comment.

If you purposely release your work as something anyone in the world is free to use and change to adapt to their own personal needs without any expectation of retribution or compensation, why are you complaining that people are using your work without any retribution or compensation?

More to the point, why are you singling out specific adopters while leaving out the bulk of your community?

It makes absolutely no sense at all.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 7 months ago (8 children)

There's generally an understanding (the GPL folks think it's naive -- and this makes their case) that if you use open source software you should give back to it.

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[–] tengkuizdihar 14 points 7 months ago

They shouldve releases redis under agplv3 if they really want those corpo to give back to community.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

without any ~~expectation~~ requirement of retribution or compensation

I won’t require you to upvote my excellent comment, but I sure expect it!

Paragraph three is solid on Wiki: reciprocity - we needs it!

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[–] snaggen 41 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (4 children)

If you think this is bad, then you should make sure to use copyleft licenses.

EDIT: Just read the details, and it seems that this is just what they did. SSPL is like AGPL with a stronger SAAS is distribution claus. That might not be valid, according to the OpenSource definition, but unless you are planning to modify the code and provide it as SAAS I think this is no a problem.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 7 months ago (5 children)

You may not make the functionality of the Software or a Modified version available to third parties as a service or distribute the Software or a Modified version in a manner that makes the functionality of the Software available to third parties.

🫡

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 7 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 19 points 7 months ago

Yeah...it's unfortunate. There's a good discussion over at hackernews here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39772562

Looks like it's a dual licence now.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 7 months ago

Been using the KeyDB fork for ages anyway, mainly because it supports running in a multi-master / active-active setup, so it scales and clusters without the ridiculousness that is HA Redis.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Well... everyone back to memcached?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago (1 children)

If you need a good queue, then postgres is your friend.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 7 months ago (2 children)

all is fine, gentlemen - it has been forked

phew

[–] [email protected] 26 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

The old code isn't going anywhere, there are already countless backups and clones. For a fork to actually be meaningful it needs community support and maintainers otherwise it's basically just a clone.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 7 months ago (1 children)
[–] snaggen 8 points 7 months ago (3 children)

No, I think you missunderstand.... A joke is supposed to be funny.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago (3 children)

RSAL seems weird and I need to research it more. But I don't mind SSPL at all. It only hurts companies who hope to use open source without wanting to give back. From my perspective that's good.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago

WTAF? Today is a bad day.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago

Read that as reddit

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago (1 children)

On another note, what other licenses do you lemmings know that impose more restrictions to prevent your software from being used for evil?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago
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