this post was submitted on 19 Dec 2024
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Electric Vehicles
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Meanwhile EU and especially US are trying to tariff them to death.
The EU tariffs supposedly reflect the level of government subsidies. So depending on that the rates vary typically between 15 to 30%.
This is not like the 100% tariff in USA. Byd is in the lower end with 17%.
Byd has even stated it doesn't matter much in the long run, because they are moving large parts of production to Europe anyway.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chinas-byd-warns-eu-tariffs-will-raise-prices-deter-buyers-2024-10-14/
If you look from a customer point of view, it's funny that EU doesn't allow China to subsidy us :) (I know it's more complex than that).
No that's not funny, because it's not subsidizing customers but helping profitability of making cars in China, and it's very obviously because the Chinese subsidies are anti competitive, and allowing that is undermining European and US production.
If you really believe cost savings are passed on to consumers when the competition is gone, you are very naive.
America subsidises American cars and Germany subsidises German cars. Why do people act like China is a special case?
NO! Absolutely not, it's true USA has subsidized Tesla, both their charging network directly, and the cars by having an EV quota Tesla sell to other manufacturers, while also subsidizing EV sales through tax credits. Tesla has also received production subsidies in China, which is why Tesla now has a 15% import tax to EU from China. Chinese and American subsidies favor production in China and USA.
Because it is! EU does NOT have subsidies that favor either EU or national EV production. In Germany there is a per car subsidy that CUSTOMERS receive DISREGARDING where the car is built including China and USA. Favoring nationally built cars would be ILLEGAL in EU!! Germany opposed the import tax on Chinese cars. China has direct subsidies to both the development and manufacturing of EV cars inside China.
Just because EU also support EV sales, doesn't mean they do it in a way that is anti-competitive like China and USA.
The EU taxes on cars from China is to compensate for Chinese subsidies that are anti competitive against cars made in other countries.
Unfortunately the tax on Chinese cars does not compensate for the disadvantage of European cars sold in China, So it doesn't restore balance and fair competition completely.
In what way? American EV subsidies apply to any company that builds cars here whether they're American or not. Chinese subsidies only apply to Chinese automakers.
Germany and the US aren't subsidizing their cars to a price so low that they undercut everyone else in a foreign market. That's the difference.
Subsidies or no subsidies the petrol Volkswagen Taos / Tharu XR cost around $11k in China [1] while 2.5x more in the US [2]
Tesla was once the most subsidised automaker in China [3]
The US is also trying to block Chinese battery companies from operating locally [4]
Also companies like BYD prices its cars multiple times what it sold for locally and are making a huge profit margin from cars sold overseas in Europe.[5]
For the EU, car manufacturing is 7% of the GDP, so of course where they can't compete they think to stifle their rivals. For the US though, it's only 3%, so I don't think it's beneficial at all, not even through blinkered lenses, they just want to maintain an illusion of dominance, which is a shame as these tariffs both in Europe and the US come at the cost of progress.
I'm surprised, but it checks out with a quick check:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1128973/revenue-motor-vehicle-manufacturing-european-union/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union
So although the numbers are not the same year, it's just below 7% comparing 2 years apart. So close enough IMO.
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Who's "they" and what companies are you even referring to here? The US only has 3 remaining domestic companies, GM, Ford, and Tesla while the rest here are foreign companies like Honda, Toyota, Kia, etc. You're telling me that every major auto manufacturer in the world outside of China is being held back from progress due to some tariffs in two markets? That's quite the claim.
What's the cost to progress when these Chinese EVs that sell way below cost put all those other manufacturers out of business? You're demanding a monopoly under the guise of increased innovation. Monopolies stifle innovation.
GM and Ford. You know GM who were given money to invest in EV R&D and instead did a stock buy back
They were given money to help convert their factories to EV production and haven't done any stock buybacks since that money was granted. Seems like you're confused about the details.
https://electrek.co/2024/06/14/gm-had-6-billion-to-spend-on-next-gen-evs-chose-stock-buybacks-opinion/
Nothing here contradicts what I said.