- Conjure animals
- Counterspell
- Leomund's Tiny Hut
- Plant Growth
- Revivify
- Slow
Just to name a few
this post was submitted on 05 Feb 2024
526 points (98.7% liked)
RPGMemes
10342 readers
165 users here now
Humor, jokes, memes about TTRPGs
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Leomund's Tiny Hut
I play Pathfinder, so this is a new one to me. Am I understanding this right? It's a bubble shield, with no weaknesses, that lasts 8 hours, that nothing can get inside (not even if it were covered in lava), but objects and characters can freely pass out of? So, does that mean people inside can use ranged attacks all they want, without anything being able to attack them? And this is a level three spell?!
Yea, that seems crazy broken.
Edit: Now I see why I haven't heard of it even though it's also in Pathfinder, it is WAY toned down in PF. DnDs version is insane.
It's also a ritual spell, so it does not even cost a spell slot of you have extra time, and wizards don't need to prepare spells to cast them as rituals.
It's basically "Yeah this is a safe camp spot for a long rest".
It's vulnerable to dispelling, and I'd argue anything else that Wall of Force is also vulnerable to, i.e. Disintegrate.
Still busted, but it's not immortal.
And yes, rules as written you can fire arrows through it so long as those arrows are inside the area of the Hut when you cast it.
I play Pathfinder
There are dozens of us!
There's an argument that ghosts can pop up from underneath it. The exact wording is "around and above you"; it doesn't specify below.
I played a game once where this issue popped up, and the ultimate decision of the DM was that it does block from below as well. Which I think is a reasonable take of the intent of the spell, but a more rules lawyery DM could say otherwise.
Counter spell has been the most valuable spell in my spell book by far. That spell literally turns the tide of battles.
What is the use for plant growth? I've seen it, but it always seemed underwhelming based on the description, so I've never used it. Especially since it can gimp your melee teammates as well as the enemies.
Plant growth is very situational, but it can shut down melee enemies for several rounds while keeping them completely susceptible to ranged attacks.
Don't they just bust out their crossbows while moving across the plant growth, or jump out of it?
I feel that they can't just jump out of it, as that basically just nullifies the spell entirely, I generally imply the plants are actually grabbing people.
As for pulling out their crossbows, at level 5, enemies are already begining to move from humanoids with equipment to unique creatures. A wereboar or ettin for example doesn't have any RAW ranged weapons.
The spell is also absolutely amazing to pair with another Spellcaster with consistent AOE damage such as moonbeam or ideally sickening radiance or cloudkill. That's the real army killer as once the spell is up, you can take cover and let them be microwaved while they can't reasonably counter you.
That sounds absolutely brutal if they can't leap out and you drop a cloudkill on them.
You'll run into the same power with every spell that limits creatures movement, and I'd say for a 4th level spell, that movement limitation is about right.
I guess your success with such strategies is going to be heavily dependent on whether the enemies can leap out or not. Any reasonably intelligent creature with enough strength is going to jump right out. Having plant growth restrain them so they can't jump is the real power, plus how wide it is. Something like grease is good if they fail their athletics check, but otherwise they'll just leap out and its value is gone. Now it's a hindrance to everyone on the field, including your party.
Really depends. In the game I DM for some monsters have killed or almost killed themselves trying to get out of plant growth. A dumb creature like a troll would hurt itself. Even a smarter creature is now stuck and unable to come into melee range
Conjure animals may be mechanically powerful but it's impact on pacing and round time may as well deal psychic damage directly to the table.
Hypnotic pattern is usually better. Maybe slightly more situational depending on your DM and monster intelligence.
I think the difference really comes if fireball would reliable actually kill your opponents and if that's your objective.
A phalanx of hobgoblins have 11 hitpoints each, so their half damage on a success is still likely to mean they go from full to dead in a fireball. Hypnotic pattern would probably still take out 3/4+ of them, but now you and mop up the incapacitated creatures.
Hypnotic pattern is more versatile as it's humane and can be used to achieve multiple objectives, but when it's life or death, nothing kills like fireball.
How many 11 HP enemies are you fighting past level 5?
Depends heavily on your campaign. Sometimes you're fighting a big powerful monster, sometimes you're fighting an invading army.
From level 5-7, I could see myself throwing a dozen CR 1/2 hobgoblins at a party looks a.
At level 9, a CR 5 boss, a pair of CR 2 lieutenants and 8 CR 1/2 minions would also be a fun fight. I'm pulling both these numbers from page 68 of Forge of Foes, a great 3rd party suppliment.
If I suspected the PC was itching to use fireball, I'd give them a killer use for it soon after they hit level 5, such as the aforementioned 8 wide, 4 deep phalanx of hobgoblins that could be incinerated in a single blast from this. If you're not familiar with lightning rods, if the idea of specific things to make the PCs feel cool, undead for the cleric to turn, mundane archers for the mink to deflect, or dense, weak enemies for the sorcerer to fireball. The mother of all lightning rods is the one you set up soon after they get the ability to show how it shines.
Also if you use the minion rules such as those created by MCDM, then at basically any level, those mooks will be instantly killed by this effect, it's great empowerment for the player and if it's budgeted for in your encounter creation, not fun spoiling.
Hypnotic Pattern.
FIreball is good, don't get me wrong. AoE damage with absolutely fucked range and radius is hard to argue with.
But Hypnotic Pattern coming off a Bard (due to Cutting/Unsettling Words, and possibly the horrifyingly overpowered Instrument of the Bards) completely destroys any encounter it touches.
It effectively does one of three things:
-At worst, it burns a Legendary Resistance
-Second worst, it wastes several enemy actions as they all need to spend turns waking each other up instead of doing damage
-Likely: Turns any swarm encounter into a bunch of very easy 'party against one mook' fights
-Likely: Allows you to just skip a boss' turn
Me: fireball isn't the answer to everything
My son: No?
Me: No. Fireball is the question.
Son: Fireball is the question?
Me: Fireball is the question and the answer is yes
All those other spells are incredibly situational. Fireball is useful in every situation!
Hostile Creatures? Fireball! Locked Door? Fireball! Failed speech check? Fireball! Queue in front of smithy too long? Fireball!
All I'm hearing is Dwight Schrute yelling "FIREBALL!"
In 3.5 it's Haste.
It still didn't let me cast two spells per round, so I rarely cast haste, at least on myself. The fighter, monk, and rogue got hastes courtesy of the bard. I needed to be casting fly and fireball/lightning bolt. Occasionally we hit the cleric with a haste, but she had reachspell so it wasn't needed.
The true reason barbarians are still useful in a party with a wizard; so the wizard has someone to drop their second twincast haste on :P
Nothing quite as satisfying! Especially as a 5th edition Evocation wizard so you can safely explode your allies too
In a 5e campaign where I played a halfling Warlock, and found that Fireball isn't on the basic Warlock spell list, I convinced my DM to allow me to create a Fireball-like spell, since at that point I didn't have a lot of choices for AoE attack spells, and my party-mates could all do more single-target damage than I could.
Since the 5e go-to attack cantrip for Warlocks is Eldritch Blast, I figured I might as well learn into it and called it Eldritch Boom. The effect is similar to a sonic boom. Instead of catching fire, creatures and objects in the AoE that fail their save are knocked over (creatures are knocked prone). For the damage, I conceded that I couldn't just copy Fireball, so instead of 8d6, I went for 6d8, but higher level slots add 1d8 per level.
The DM allowed it mainly because I was the main spellcaster. But later on, our party got a new addition: a pyromaniac sorcerer. Around that time, I switched to Blight as my go-to attack (when I didn't just use Eldritch Blast).
Counterspell
Need a wizard with a gun going Counterspell This you filthy casual
Counter spells counter spell
My bard friend counterspells your counterspell
For aoe damage? Yeah it was designed that way. Same for lightning bolt but a fireball will hit more in average than a line spell. But the line has more range. But 3rd is when great utility comes into play as well.
I have spent the last few combat encounters trying to line up enemies for a good lightning bolt. Much harder than just plopping a fireball in their general vicinity.
Skull trap ftw
Well, in that picture, I'd go with Lightning Bolt instead.
If he picked Lightning Bolt he could hit everyone in that entire line with minimal collateral damage