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Greek guy here.
Επιούσιος (e-pi-u-si-os) is a composite word (you can make an astronomical number of composite words in Greek if you want to express a new concept, such as tele-phone) and in this sentence it means that which will nourish us for the day. So daily is quite fitting here.
So it's more like "our day's worth of bread" than "the bread we eat every day"?
"I'd like my daily ration today". Sounds bitchy like that.
If the word was missing from the sentence, then it could be translated as "Give us today our bread and forgive our sins.....".
Instead, with the word added, it can be translated as "Give us today the bread we need for the day and forgive our sins..... ".
I guess the significance of the word is in not being greedy and asking from God only what you really need instead of what is "owed" to you?
Nourishing makes sense... Particularly in a context similar to edifying.
epiousion was greek for sliced
It means "pan-fried, with an egg in the middle", you dolt!
YOU FUCKING HEATHEN
IT MEANS DIPPED IN EGG THEN PAN FRIED
ANYTHING ELSE IS BLASPHEMY AND YOU WILL BURN FOR ETERNITY
Hence the common phrase, best thing since epiousion bread. I thought it was obvious, I guess I'm the only one that drew the conclusion
And we've been comparing how good other things are to it ever since
I'm fluently bilingual in English and Spanish, and I grew up going to a Spanish speaking Presbyterian church. The kids in my high school taught me that "pan" (the spanish word for "bread") was slang for "pussy", so everytime my grandpa (the pastor) recited the Lord's prayer, I always had a huge smile on my face thinking about him asking God to give us our daily allowance of pussy.
That's hilarious. It makes sense for pan just to be a shortened 'panocha'.
I can't argue the classical Greek etymology, but the argument about redundancy flies in the face how I was taught the Lord's prayer. "Give us this day our daily bread" ~= "Give us our bread today as you do every day".
I always took it as sort of like the amount of bread you need every day being "daily bread" and getting it every day.
Now it occurs in a post on lemmy
And so shall it echo across the fediverse, amen
I have only this moment realised that the prayer is referencing the xtian communion giving of bread symbolism, and not just randomly demanding food as if the writer was hungry
Is it, though? Or is it saying "Give us our basic staple needs"? It would be useful if a theologian could chip in on the dates, but I suspect this prayer predates bready communion
Historically? All of this is at least disputed. Within the church canon? "[Jesus] broke the bread, gave it to his disciples and said 'Take this, all of you and eat it, for it is my body, which will be given up for you.' When [the last] supper had ended he took the cup. Again he gave thanks and praise, gave the cup to his disciples and said 'Take this, all of you, and drink from it. For it is my blood, the blood of the new covenant which will be shed for you and for all so that sin may be forgiven."
Theologically speaking it's not a matter of debate at all that communion predates Christ's death and therefore the founding of the Church or the establishment of the Lord's prayer.
From my brief and poorly remembered Christian education, there were at least 3 occasions where the Big J handed out food and drink, and made explicit connection between his god powers, and the catering. So the idea was there in some form from at least the writing of the gospels. But yeah, it would be good to hear from someone who actually knows what they're talking about.
Let me tell you, 10 year old me in catholic school really thought he was on to some comedy gold when he realized this day and daily was some confusing shit.
Nobody ever laughed. Turned out, I'm not really funny.
If I remember correctly, there's a group of scholars that translate it as "appropriate."
Fun story! They came to that conclusion because they discovered a text which had what they believed was another very similar word ("epiousi") that, in context, meant "necessary" or "enough for now." That text was a shopping list.
Then the text got lost for a long time, and when they found it again, new eyes on it realized that they'd misread the word, so it was back to square one.
Some denominations, Eastern Orthodox in particular, do translate it as "our needed bread, give us today"
"How do you like your bread?"
"Appropriate"
The daily translation also makes the term redundant, with "this day" already making clear the bread is for the current day
Yes, but it doesn't make it clear that it is something you receive every day. If I say "give us our pizza today" it doesn't imply that I have a daily pizza party (I don't, just a silly example).
Why don't you?
Cowardice, Fear, and Self-Loathing.
I think I'll stick to 'fresh' or 'sourdough' as alternatives from now on