this post was submitted on 08 Jul 2024
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[–] [email protected] 209 points 5 months ago (21 children)

Drugs feel amazing. Getting high is like the fucking grand canyon, one of the things in life that lives up to the hype. Doing drugs makes you happier than you thought you could be, and there are a lot of people who don't have a lot of reasons to be happy.

We shouldn't pretend that drugs are bad, mm-kay. Drugs are awesome. That's the problem. They're too awesome. It's an awesome overload, and you end up not wanting to do anything except for drugs.

People who do drugs are not evil. They're having fun, experiencing new things, making friends and bonding over shared experiences. You tell a bunch of kids that drugs will ruin their lives, and then somebody at a party passes them a joint or offers them a bump of coke, they're going to realize you were full of shit.

Like, let's say that there was some weird flesh-eating bacteria that was specifically found only on water slides, but only on a few water slides. Now it's your job to convince all the children of the world to avoid water slides, because of the small possibility of bacteria. It's a serious problem, and it would be correct to tell everyone to avoid all waterslides everywhere, even if only a small percentage of waterslide riders died horrible deaths. So you tell people waterslides might kill you or maim you in excruciating ways. But if you act like waterslides aren't fun, you lose all credibility. Most people who ride the waterslides don't die, and they go on to tell everyone how much fun they had on waterslides, and that doesn't make them bad people.

[–] [email protected] 60 points 5 months ago (5 children)

It is about distinguishing addictive and damaging drugs from useful medicines with a low chance of addiction. You are not going to convince me that the majority of people that have used meth or crack are fine. Where as weed or lsd I would.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (5 children)

I will!

The majority of people that have used meth or crack are fine.

Now, don't get me wrong: meth is fantastically addictive. It's the most physically addictive drug there is, as far as I'm aware. And the fantastically high addiction rate for first-time users of meth is: roughly 30%.

70% of people who try the most addictive drug in the world don't get addicted, and go on to do other things like play tennis or do their taxes or switch to weed instead.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Tried meth once. Felt like Adderall. I could see why people abuse it, but I didn't feel the need.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 months ago (9 children)

That's cause Adderall is meth.

Or meth adjacent. I don't know the chemistry.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Adderall is amphetamine, the base compound.

Meth is methamphetamine, amphetamine with a methyl group attached to it, so it's very closely related to Adderall. That small change makes it a bit more potent, longer lasting and euphoric though.

But meth can also get prescribed for ADHD and narcolepsia (under the brand name 'Desoxyn') in very rare cases where even Adderall doesn't seem to do the trick. So basically, both substances can be used therapeutically and they both can fuck up your life if you start abusing them, with meth admittedly being more potent and dangerous than regular amphetamine.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 months ago (1 children)

a more accurate analogy would be toxic chemicals in the waterslides that build up in the body, that takes a while to be expelled out

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[–] [email protected] 125 points 5 months ago (6 children)

No-one wakes up and decides that they're going to get addicted to drugs today. Your life has typically been in a real shit place for a long time and it's a "fuck it" type situation.

You don't usually see happy and wealthy people getting addicted to crack.

[–] [email protected] 70 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I knew at least one kid in high school who was told that weed was as bad as heroin. Then he saw his friends doing weed and everything seemed fine. So then he did weed and everything seemed fine. Then he started asking about heroin.

[–] [email protected] 43 points 5 months ago (1 children)

this is the problem with bullshitting around prohibition. if you feel like people lied to you about weed, they could have been wrong about heroin too.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

"What's that old saying? 'Beer before liquor, never sicker... Don't do heroin.,'" -Bojack Horseman

[–] [email protected] 48 points 5 months ago (5 children)

For some people, they see being addicted to drugs as an improvement on their current situation.

Life is already fucked, might as well get a buzz while I’m doing it.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 5 months ago

Indeed. If drugs are the only thing that can make you feel good, it can feel stupid not to use them.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 5 months ago (1 children)

You don't usually see happy and wealthy people getting addicted to crack.

Cocaine though. Same drug, different package

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 5 months ago (5 children)

My experiences being around people with cocaine have been at two opposite spectrums: people with shit lives that want a release, and people with families/wealth/opportunities that want a release.

The latter experience for me was an office Christmas party. We shared an office with a law firm, and one guy with a wife, two kids, and what I'd assume is a solid six-figure salary had two keys worth, several joints, several beers, and whatever he was smoking from a pipe in the toilets.

It might not be an addiction, but it's definitely used by wealthy people. Hell, if the rumours about Musk are true, the dude is on all sorts of illegal shit all the time...

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[–] [email protected] 79 points 5 months ago (37 children)

I smoked some opium once when I was travelling and it was possibly the most pleasant experience of my entire life. Shortly after that I was left alone in a hostel room with someone who was dying from an overdose on it, which was possibly the most unpleasant.

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[–] [email protected] 79 points 5 months ago (8 children)

Why are people like this? Shit life syndrome. What do we do with them? Offer them compassion and support.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago (17 children)

Or sometimes they already have a good life (house, kid, spouse, dogs, x2 cars and stable support) and instead they decide to burn it all down in favor of a two-week crack bender. She drained our bank account, caught a DV charge and we are now divorced, thank fuck.

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[–] [email protected] 48 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Privileged, ignorant take by this anon. If you get REALLY down bad sometimes relief in any form is enough. Anybody's who's been there knows what I mean, anybody who hasn't should count their lucky stars and try to.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 5 months ago (10 children)

There’s no shortage of people who refuse to understand addiction. “Why don’t you just…” “All you have to do is stop.” Plus equate the addiction and not stopping as weakness and failure. IMO those with that POV are talking to polish their own moral superiority and aren’t at all interested in the factors surrounding addiction.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 months ago (6 children)

The real amusing part of that is there's a very good chance that those people who don't understand are very likely addicted to something legal like booze or caffeine. Hell try anyone to try quitting caffeine and they'll see how much it sucks.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (6 children)

Might also be worth noting how DARE made every drug into the Drug That Kills You Instantly. Cocaine instantly causes your heart to explode. Heroin immediately turns your into a vegetable. Weed is a "gateway drug" that's laced with every other drug at once. Bath Salts are causing people to eat each other's faces off.

How many interactions with actual drug users does it take to disabuse you of these notions? The high performing athlete who smokes weed. The kids doing whip its at the concert who look like their having a great time. Fucking gym rats doing steroids and getting swole as hell. The older folks doing oxy and heroin so they can bust through pain and pull an insane shift. The college kids using amphetamines to study through the day and party through the night.

It's not as though drugs don't have very immediate and obvious benefits. People aren't doing them because they want to become washed up stereotypes.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 months ago

Exactly. DARE and related programs aren't doing anyone any favors because once you try one of those drugs, you'll realize they're really overselling how dangerous they are.

Don't get me wrong, drugs are dangerous and many people get sucked into career-ending addiction. But anti-drug advocacy should be very honest about both the benefits and the negatives, as well as alternatives if you're looking for some benefits (e.g. regular exercise can increase energy levels a lot).

I'm in favor of legalizing most recreational drugs, which should make dosage way more predictable (no more ODs) and detect warning signs before things spiral. I'd like to legalize and tax drugs, and use the tax proceeds to fund rehab programs. Start with weed and shrooms, and expand to whatever is most popular.

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (7 children)

I've known people who have been addicted to some kind of street narcotic. They stopped when they got away from their bad relationship and improved their life.

It's not about what will happen later, it's about dealing with what is here and now, it's a form of escapism. Not every case, mind you, but many.

Life sucks, and if you have/know/love people, and get the same in return, it sucks less. There's a reason to keep going. People who end up addicted to harmful, hard, narcotics and other street drugs are generally in situations that they don't know how to handle and just want to not feel the way they do now. Sometimes what they're feeling is depression and hopelessness, or something similar. Imagine going from worried about everything, stressed out of your mind, depressed and suicidal, to complete careless bliss in minutes because you took a drug.

I'm not endorsing drug use, at all. Drugs (specifically street drugs) are not the answer. You'll feel better while your life implodes and you won't care that your spouse left or that you just lost your house, job and friends, because you're so high that you can't feel the sadness from these things happening. They'll make you feel like a winner while you lose everything, and you'll be blissfully ignorant of the truth. The drugs just fucked your life right up.

Bluntly, people are suffering through so much by the time they turn to drugs that they are looking for any relief for the constant pain and suffering they go through every moment of every day. They need help. They either get it from society/friends/family, or they get it from whatever drug they can score to help them get through it.

They then end up addicted and it begins a cycle of violence that is difficult to stop. They need help, friends, family, understanding, patience and time to get better, and often what they get is demeaned, kicked aside, thrown in jail, abandoned and disowned; all of which makes them go deeper into the gaping black hole of drug use.

I don't have the answer to fix this situation. I never claimed I did, but I hope that someone reading this understands the psychology of addiction a little better after reading it. I am, by no means, a doctor or specialist. I've just observed the recovery first hand, and spoken to people who have gone through it. What I've said here is the culmination of the discussions I have had with people who have lived it. I'm certain there are other versions of this kind of story, leading to addiction (and hopefully out of it). My take away is that drugs are not a cause, they're an effect. The cause is sometimes mental health related, or it could just be shit luck. Either way, you don't choose to get addicted to drugs, you feel like you need to take drugs to deal with life, and addiction just happens as a consequence of that. I firmly believe in social programs for welfare/income assistance (including UBI), and social programs for drug rehab. All of which should be provided as a societal benefit. If people can get the mental and financial help they need, when they need it, I believe we can prevent a lot of people from turning to drugs to deal with their problems. We can avoid people becoming homeless and incapable of benefiting society. Reducing crime, and reducing suffering universally throughout our society.

I also believe that there's always going to be "junkie scum" that would rather take UBI to cover the bills while they rot away at home, in what quickly becomes a drug den. I believe the people who are actual junkie scum that would do that while having free access to resources to turn their life around, is pretty small. I think that the vast majority of people want to live a life they can be proud of, and will do so if given the chance.

The core problem is that they're not given that chance. They go right from being under their parents wing to being thrown face first in the dirt and told to pick themselves up "by their bootstraps" and figure it out, by people who hold more money than they'll ever earn. We should be ashamed that drug use is as high as it is. To me, it indicates a massive gap in how much we actually care about our fellow humans. That somehow, if they can't do anything that we find useful, when we find it useful for someone to do that, then they're not worthy of living. That's why it's called "earning" a living, because if you don't earn it, then you don't deserve to live. IMO, that's callous and cruel.

I was tossed to the rigors of society in my late teens, I won't get into the circumstances, but I narrowly avoided getting into a situation where I would become an addict. I never realized, when I was in that situation, that I was literally a bad payday away from being homeless, jobless, junkie scum. Only for the love and support of a few, did I manage to get through the hardest of times and earn a living. Not everyone is so lucky.

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

(in China) "yo, check this out, and if you get caught with some, it's straight to jail, too. Or even better, death penalty if you're carrying enough!"

Says something about your daily life when this isn't enough of a deterrent :/

[–] [email protected] 22 points 5 months ago (15 children)

This is the kind of thing said by someone who has never spent any amount of mental energy trying to understand drugs and drug use in any way. This is not a thought someone develops organically through experimentation and reasoning. This is a line parroted by idiots and it’s the kind of thinking that criminalizes and stigmatizes drug use and gets millions of people killed.

[–] refalo 11 points 5 months ago (3 children)

it's 4chan. they have PhDs in trolling

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 5 months ago (7 children)

These kind of MFs usually be like "Don't do the illegal drug that will destroy your life, do the legal one! Ethanol comes under many street names, like beer, whiskey, wine, etc."

(I'm against prohibition, I just like to point out these MFs hypocrisy, especially when the booze is kind of subsidized by the state due to it being a "national treasure".)

[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Yes, and many naive young people don't really understand the fine lines between fun illegal party drugs (weed, molly, LSD) and life changing, soul crushing, body destroying incredibly immediately addictive illegal party drugs (crack, heroin, meth etc )

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (4 children)

So this machine is driving at high speeds and is incredibly dangerous and if it crashes while you are in it or riding it you'll probably die.

Why are people using cars and motorcycles? I don't get it!

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 5 months ago

Op has never felt so desperate to feel anything else

[–] [email protected] 18 points 5 months ago (5 children)

Hey now, some of us can handle our drugs just fine. Don't judge the entire world because a fraction can't tell themselves no.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 5 months ago (1 children)

very much doubt that it's a "fraction"

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 months ago

Here there's roughly 200,000 people who use amphetamines recretionally and about 20,000 people who according to doctors have a problem with their usage. I.e. 90% can use them occasionally without an issue. For alcohol the number here is closer to 85%.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago (2 children)

“Don’t do drugs” Hot take.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 months ago

Say perhaps to drugs

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I'm overweight.. I guess that means sugar destroys people's lives. Why haven't they banned sugar?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago (1 children)

But... most places have banned these drugs. I'm not following your logic. Are you saying they should be legal because we're free to ruin our health in other ways?

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