this post was submitted on 09 Jun 2024
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[–] [email protected] 125 points 4 months ago (3 children)

What on earth is this gibberish

[–] [email protected] 70 points 4 months ago (1 children)

A weird ass Microsoft ad.

I work with .net developers. It scarred them so deeply, don't even like to program outside of work anymore.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Yeah

I could maybe see it, if all you know otherwise is C++, and your experience with other languages is trying to make python / go / node / whatever work well on a Windows machine without well-working tooling, and then you finally try C# and it's like oh shit, it's not filling up my mouth with feces every time I want to iterate over a dictionary or need memory management, this is a big improvement, I like it

But, VSCode has good support for those other languages now anyway

And, the bigger question, who the fuck are all these people upvoting this

Like what do you guys do all day? Or is this some subtle super sophisticated joke I am not understanding, or do you just like the man's chin? Or do you just not program and you upvote programming things out of general excitement about the idea of doing programming?

Who in the fuck is this excited about C# of all the things in the world to get excited about?

I'm just baffled in general by it

[–] [email protected] 18 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I work in C# and I find it highly preferable over working in Java or C++.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Yeah. That’s what I was saying - it is clearly superior to C++ and probably to Java but those are like the worst two languages in the meta. It’s like hey this is a clear improvement over what we were doing 40 years ago that’s acknowledged by everyone has aged poorly.

Idk man, I’m not trying to be bigoted about it just saying my experience is more pleasant with a few other languages available outside of that grouping.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (4 children)

It very much depends on what you're trying to do. C# is pretty great for developing APIs, especially in an enterprise environment involving a lot of business logic. I don't have much of an opinion on Django as I haven't spent enough time looking into it, but I have looked at enough Node.js code to know I don't prefer it for most of the projects I've been involved in.
My Python experience is largely based in working with things like Raspberry Pis, and relatively simple jobs where Python made the job pretty easy. I don't know enough experience with larger Python projects to have a feel for what good architecture in a complex application looks like.
With C#, I can go into a large application using good practices and quickly navigate the code and be productive.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago (4 children)

I'm assuming since this is greentext a lot of people seeing this don't work with code every day. I definitely don't work with it every day, only reason I know .NET is a fistful of fireants is from the few programs I have made for my company.

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[–] [email protected] 92 points 4 months ago (3 children)

A thinly veiled M$ ad, trying to save face after the .NET fiasco of 2021...

[–] [email protected] 32 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Tell me more about the .NET fiasco of 2021?

[–] [email protected] 70 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Microsoft tried to lock a development feature behind a paywall by introducing an artificial dependency on Visual Studio.

This also happened to occur right around the time there were also licensing and hosting issues around open source libraries. The manipulation of the .NET foundation was the really concerning part. Made it clear that MS still doesn't give a damn about the wider community using their language.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Everything I don't like is an ad.

Seriously. People. Get off your high horses. It's a fucking greetext of someone liking something.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago

the long con, wait three years and nobody will suspect your ads

[–] [email protected] 75 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (4 children)

pervasive unchecked nullability

Framework management is hell, fat binaries inconvenient and not default

No option monad in the standard lib

Cross version dependencies simply don't work in some contexts

Compiler output only marginally better than working with c++

At least it doesn't have Gradle.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 months ago (2 children)

pervasive unchecked nullability

Addressed nowadays with the question mark and exclamation mark syntax, and programming without nullability is a pain

Framework management is hell, fat binaries inconvenient and not default

Nuget?

Compiler output only marginally better than working with c++

No one claims it's faster at runtime than good C++, it's just a lot easier to write decent code

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Compiler output only marginally better than working with c++

No one claims it's faster at runtime than good C++, it's just a lot easier to write decent code

I think they're referring to warning and error content. Compared to things like rust, deciphering error notifications from the c# compiler can sometimes feel like trying to figure out what a child with limited vocabulary is trying to tell you.

Even with decades of personal experience with it, they can be confusing and non-informative sometimes for me.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago

Yes this is right. C++ in this context is the boogeyman worst possible scenario. C# only being a little better just means it's not actual garbage

[–] kogasa 4 points 4 months ago

Nullable reference types are (a completely mandatory) bandaid fix in my opinion as a .net dev. You will encounter lots of edge cases where the compiler is unable to determine the nullability of an object, e.g. when using dependency injection to populate a field, or when using other unusual control flows like MediatR. You can suppress the warnings manually at the slight risk of lying to the analyzer. Objects supplied by external library code may or may not be annotated, and they may or may not be annotated correctly. The lack of compile-time null checking is occasionally an issue. But that said, NRT makes nullability a significantly smaller issue in C# than it used to be

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago (6 children)

Null reference checking by the compiler is enabled by default in new C# projects.

C# doesn’t come with an option monad in its standard library, but its cooler sibling F# does.

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Always seems like you have to reinvent the wheel in .NET and I'm missing something. Is there a nice set of ready to go libraries like Spring Boot?

[–] [email protected] 23 points 4 months ago

I get the sense that’s what .NET itself is meant to be

It’s a very insular ecosystem IMO, and the lines between .NET, C# and Visual Studio are very blurry

[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 months ago (1 children)

aspnet core is the library you want

Simple and just works

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (5 children)

Simple and just works

    def fetch_html(self, url):
        domain = urllib.parse.urlparse(url).netloc
        if domain not in self.robot_parsers:
            rp = urllib.robotparser.RobotFileParser()
            rp.set_url(f'https://{domain}/robots.txt')
            rp.read()
            self.robot_parsers[domain] = rp

        rp = self.robot_parsers[domain]
        if not rp.can_fetch(self.user_agent, url):
            print(f"Fetching not allowed by robots.txt: {url}")
            return None

        if self.last_fetch_time:
            time_since_last_fetch = time.time() - self.last_fetch_time
            if time_since_last_fetch < self.delay:
                time.sleep(self.delay - time_since_last_fetch)

        headers = {'User-Agent': self.user_agent}
        response = requests.get(url, headers=headers)
        self.last_fetch_time = time.time()

        if response.status_code == 200:
            return response.text
        else:
            print(f"Failed to fetch {url}: {response.status_code}")
            return None

Randomly selected something from a project I'm working on that's simple and just works. Show me less than 300 lines of .NET to do the same, and I would be somewhat surprised.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

In .NET to make a controller you just make a class that extends controller and then a public function that returns a ViewResult, JsonResult, etc.

No black box dependency injection required.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago

It can be even simpler than that. With the so-called “Minimal API” framework lets you define an entire web app with simple functions. This article shows some samples of what it looks like to create a web app in this style.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 4 months ago (3 children)

IMO C# is at the point where Java can probably just die. I don't see a point in keeping Java when C# is a viable option in many use cases.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 4 months ago

I don't think this line of reasoning is strictly speaking correct, but assuming it was, then I think it would follow that Kotlin exists and as such C# does not need to be kept around.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I'm sure Microsoft will be happy to know their EEE strategy is finally paying off, only two decades late.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 4 months ago

Oracle owns Java and has made its proprietary hold on the language clear.

There are no good guys here.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago

It's attitudes like this that made me choose C# as the language I wanted to use professionally after graduation.

Having grown up in the Slashdot era where people would be childish, post about Micro$oft, and parrot EEE, all while the .NET Foundation consistently put out great tooling with a mature community that actively wanted to help you learn the language/framework, the choice was simple.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Compiled Java is still cross-platform. It’s been a few years for me, but when I last worked in C# it was a giant PITA to work on it in Linux or MacOS. I hope it’s gotten better.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago (1 children)

.NET (not .NET Framework) is cross platform and can be compiled into native binaries on a variety of platforms. There is however the wrinkle of not all the libraries within .NET being supported on all platforms. Most notably, everything involving a graphical UI is Windows only.

The most well known cross platform .NET project you probably have heard about is Jellyfin.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 4 months ago

I guess I need glasses bc I can't C#

[–] [email protected] 19 points 4 months ago (3 children)
[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Do you know why sharp is added to the end of programming languages? Like c sharp and f sharp?

Actually, I don't even know if it is pronounced c sharp or f sharp. I just assumed it was the same as music.

[–] starman 33 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Do you know why sharp is added to the end of programming languages? Like c sharp and f sharp?

There was (and still is) a language called C. Then C++ was invented. And then C#, maybe because # looks kinda like 4 pluses.

There is also another programming paradigm, called functional programming. F# is a functional programming language and runs on the same platform as C# (that platform is called .NET). That's why they named it F#.

Actually, I don't even know if it is pronounced c sharp or f sharp. I just assumed it was the same as music.

Yes, it's pronounced see sharp.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Very cool, thank you for explaining that.

[–] starman 8 points 4 months ago

No problemo

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (5 children)

a sharp symbol is ++ stacked on top of ++ So C ++ ++ becomes C#

Phonetically, It is C sharp because it sounds cooler than C hash or C pound.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 months ago

Also because in music, C# is a half-note higher than C.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Rad. Thanks! What do the pluses denote in a programming language? What's the difference between c+, c++ and c sharp?

[–] [email protected] 16 points 4 months ago (2 children)

++ is the increment operator in C, which increases a value by 1. C++ was intended to be an improvement on C, and so it's saying that C++ is C incremented. C# is C++ ++ or C++ incremented. It's just a bunch of programmer jokes. There isn't a C+ afaik.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago

Oh, haha, got it. Thanks

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

There is no c+. The reason is that ++ means "increment by 1" in c itself (and many other languages).

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago

Okay, thanks

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 months ago (1 children)

i hate .net with a passion and will spent the rest of my life hunting down the inventor

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago

I read the post and thought to myself "am I the only one who hates .NET?". Glad to know that I'm not the only one. Count me in on that hunt bro.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 4 months ago

Runs on Windows, macOS, and Linux

I mean, you can't argue with that.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

i tried using c# for lower-level-ish tasks and it was even more painful than js (emulation development, specifically). who the fuck decided that all math operations should cast to int????

[–] [email protected] 16 points 4 months ago

I program professionally in C# and I gotta say, it really isn't for that. You can do services in it, but that's as low level as I'd suggest. It's definitely a high level language for rapid dev of web and desktop stuff.

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