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We're basically talking about a low power motorcycle/scooter with optional pedals at that point.
this post was submitted on 11 May 2024
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micromobility - Ebikes, scooters, longboards: Whatever floats your goat, this is micromobility
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Ebikes, bicycles, scooters, skateboards, longboards, eboards, motorcycles, skates, unicycles: Whatever floats your goat, this is all things micromobility!
"Transportation using lightweight vehicles such as bicycles or scooters, especially electric ones that may be borrowed as part of a self-service rental program in which people rent vehicles for short-term use within a town or city.
micromobility is seen as a potential solution to moving people more efficiently around cities"
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I think the question becomes, should you need to be licensed to operate and should you have to register/insure what essentially become ultralight motorcycles?
If you could get a $1-2k "motorcycle" that was an electric bike, having about a 45 mph top speed, a 20 mile range, and a detachable battery that you could take inside with you to charge, it would be such an efficient, practical method of transportation.
I really like the US take on this one actually. I'm pro ebike and absolutely love motorcycles, but 45 mph is too fast to not require a licence.
Here we have 3 classes numbered as such. Class 1 is 15 mph pedal assisted, class two is 20 mph pedal assisted, and class 3 is 28 mph and allows a dedicated throttle. Class 3 often has limitations for certain bike trails, but most class 3 comes have variable modes to limit them to class 1 and 2 speeds. Generally as long as you're following trail speed limits you really don't have to worry.
This part varies by state, but in general anything over 28 mph is considered a moped and requires a proper license. As an avid motorcycle rider I feel even 28 might be too fast for non-license, but I also understand keeping up with cars, especially in cities, is way safer so I get why the limit is a bit higher than you'd expect.
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At that speed, you want something beefier than a bike frame and parts. A US class 3 ebike is limited to 27mph on a 750W motor. That's stressing the limit of bike parts, even with ebike tires and chains.
A typical human can put down around 250W into a bike, and the best athletes around 400W. 750W plus what you put into it is outside the original intent of bike parts.
If you want to go 45mph, everything needs to go up a notch in design. That increases both weight and cost. A $1-2k range is only possible with the cheapest crap scooter parts. Get closer to $4k and things look better.
People should have some kind of licensing for this. Always should have for the ICE versions, and probably for class 3 ebikes, too. Maybe just the motorcycle license, maybe something specific, but it shouldn't be wide open.
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I've seen those. They're 2-stroke and gas powered
Most of them are 4-stroke now, but thankfully they are gradually fucking off in general and being replaced with electric scooters.
Electric moped are a thing. Check out the Onyx RCR
You can get electric scooters. Some country in Asia banned use of gas ones because of the pollution and noise when electric ones became feasible.
It doesn't add any cost to include a throttle on the ebike.
Regulate speeds, not mechanisms. Moving people to micromobility is a benefit regardless of the form of that micromobility. Speed is the safety concern, not any of this loophole-inducing nonsense.
No, no and no. In our country, there's a loophole in traffic regulation allowing for anything under 25kph on bike paths if it's electric powered. This resulted in a super dangerous situation for normal cyclists. I commute by normal bike and believe my it's terrible:
- food delivery guys switched to electric scooters (think Vespa) and clog bike paths. These things are way too heavy in case of a collision with a pedestrian or cyclist.
- the 25kph speed limit is not observed! Either the manufacturers don't care or the drivers tweak their rides.
- the acceleration is way too sudden. Even a regular E-Bike needs to ramp up to speed. And you see when the driver engages his drivetrain by way of them moving their legs. With a throttle you just have a lump of mass that suddenly jumps forward. Super unpredictable.
So now we basically have way too big, way too heavy and way too quick objects on bike paths endangering everyone else.
There needs to be strict mass limits for vehicles allowed on bicycle paths. There need to be acceleration limits. There need to be mandatory checks for pedal-less ebikes. If a bike from a manufacturer is found that can exceed the speed limit, there need to be existentially threatening fines. Because their products are threatening lives!
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It's also extremely useful for changing gears while riding uphill if its a hub motor style one.
Also good for taking off from a stop in traffic. Pedal assist is always laggy
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Here we have these 25kph IAmAbikeAndNotAMotorcylce Frankensteins on the bike lane and I freaking hate it. They go illegaly on the pedestrian, look at their phones while driving, block the narrow bike lanes. They should be supposed to have a drivers license and go on the street. Most if not all of them are food couriers. They should be treated as such.
Sorry for the rant, and funny enough I live in the EU (in Austria)
Same issues with them in the Netherlands. Fatbikes and the people who typically ride them are the worst. Fatbikes dont belong on the bike lane.
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.....isn't that just a motorcycle or scooter?
Yes but speed limited to and in bike form. I guess yeah you can argue it's not a bike anymore but who cares? To me the important thing is that it should be allowed in bike lanes if it conforms to existing ebike standards. People with disabilities might not be able to pedal and I don't see why they should be prohibited from using a bike lane just because their bike is powered entirely by electricity instead of just mostly.
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Based on the other things the UK gov has been saying, I assume this is some ploy to reduce the prevalence of e bikes.
I don't really see the point in removing the ability to pedal. What, just to remove yet another age old tried and true basic technology from our lives? Pedals offer an alternative natural power source when your battery gets low, and some people still occasionally enjoy exercise.
32KPH ≈ 20MPH
That does sound fairly reasonable for a bicycle speed limit. Most typical mechanical bicycles tend to have an average comfortable cruising speed of around 11 to 12MPH. Max speed really depends on the gearing of the bike and how much energy the rider can put into it, but it's not unreasonable nor difficult to refrain from going over 20MPH.
If I do ever get an electric bicycle, I want mine with the option to pedal as well.
They are talking about removing the obligation to pedal, not the option (which I agree with you, it's a good option to have)
I think it's a very sensible decision, I'm from a EU country with 250W limit which is very anemic for the dangerous city streets we have in my town. A throttle is much safer especially when starting from a stop, but it's currently illegal to have on.
Huh, okay, I get the article a little better now. Sorry I'm not very familiar with rules and regulations regarding electric bikes, or even mechanical bikes for that matter.
Where I live, the only regulation they have for bicycles actually applies to automobiles, they have to give bicyclists 3 feet of space when they pass. That's it. No speed limits, no helmets necessary, just use common sense and don't ride in the middle of the highway.
I'm glad to live in a very bicycle friendly city.
I like it. I'm an ebike rider here in Canada and we have 500w restrictions at 32km/h, honestly, 500w might be fine for average size people but I'm a heavy dude. When my bike is restricted to the legal limit, and I'm on any kind of difficult terrain or incline, the machine struggles. I bought a 750nom/850peak ebike for myself and it is absoltuly nessecary for safe and effectic operation. Limiting the power is just asking for me to take an injury or fail to launch.
I still observe the 32km/h limit and leave my speed limiter on.
A mid drive might help get more out of 500w
Bit late for that for me but maybe next time.
Same here lol, next time though!
Restricting the wattage (as opposed to top speed) is dumb. Never mind heavy dudes; consider cargo bikes!
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As long as the speed limit remains the same as for pedal-assist bikes then I don't really see any difference wether the rider is pedaling or not.
Exactly. Class 2 already has a throttle lever.
I think the lines between ebike, escooter, and emotorcycle are pretty blurred right now.
The primary delineation should be speed. This bike path has an upper limit of 30 mph, this road has a lower limit of 45 mph no matter which 2 or more wheels you're on. And no wheels allowed on the pedestrian only sidewalk.
The tech and use has changed enough that governments should rethink this entire space, IMHO.
Ehhhhhh I can't agree. When you're pedaling it's a completely different feel and mentality. It still feels very much like a bicycle and you belong in bike lanes.
No pedaling is a motorbike and you belong on the road.
Only exemption is for physically disabled. I think they could have no pedaling and 30 km/h just so they have access to bike lanes.
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Kind of stupid idea. There is a place and need for light weight transport that is assisted bicycle. Our law classifies these (and electric scooters) as light electric vehicles and has special set of rules for them. Things like when driving on pedestrian paths they can't move faster than 5km/h. On roads maximum is 25km/h but they have to wear reflective west. Kids must wear helmets, etc. For the most part sensible requirements.
That said I am of the opinion everyone should take a test to participate in traffic, bicycles included. For bikes there aren't many rules they need to know anyway. They can skip almost all of the signs except those for the right of way. So it would be easy test but a necessary one. And simply bar kids on bicycles in traffic lanes and that's it. Safest for everyone.
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That's a moped. I suppose they have their space too.
Just so you know, ebikes sold in Europe don't have a hand throttle, because laws.
But also, most ebike manufacturers use generic motor controllers.
Is there a small panel somewhere on your ebike? Take it off and see if there's a small aluminium box in there with dozens of wires coming out of it.
Chances are, one of those sets of wires ends in an unused black plug, with a red, a black, and a green wire going to it.
That's the throttle plug.
Any old generic throttle from Crapazon will fit it. You might have to swap the wire colours.
Enjoy :)
It's trivial to make most adjustments to these bikes. Disabling speed limiters etc.
It's still illegal however
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wait but which wire do I cut to disarm the bomb
If I remember correctly, they are allowed to have a thumb throttle if it's capped at 6km/hr (which is still very handy for starting, especially on a cargo bike). On a generic Bafang/similar motor controller, that's a purely software limit that anyone with a programming cable can change.
People who do this kind of stuff are the reason the rest of us can't have nice things. Same as with Surrons fucking up bike trails and then getting all ebikes banned from there.
Personally I'm of the mind that people should be free to tinker with their things, and regulations should be specific enough to appropriately respond the performance to whatever the thing has
It is not wrong to modify the bike that is your property to change or customize its appearance or functionality. It's wrong to be inconsiderate, or a dick. I think the distinction is important
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As an American immigrant among the English, I have never seen a deliverer pedal their bike in my LIFE. We're not even talking about changing what happens, we're talking about reducing the burden on the police.
They're too busy putting the boot in on people who don't like genocide, so I get it.
25kph is too slow for road ebikes. I wish they would allow these to at least be 32kph/20mph.
As someone who bikes in Copenhagen i love that they are not faster. E bikes are allowing people to get to speeds that they cannot handle because it is a lot easier. So they go faster than their abilities and becomes very dangerous on the overfilled bike lanes
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No, it isn't, because it's a bicycle. If you want to go faster, get an electric motorcycle, and get your license which teaches you how to handle those speeds.
25kph is slow for an accoustic bike.
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