micromobility - Ebikes, scooters, longboards: Whatever floats your goat, this is micromobility

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Ebikes, bicycles, scooters, skateboards, longboards, eboards, motorcycles, skates, unicycles: Whatever floats your goat, this is all things micromobility!

"Transportation using lightweight vehicles such as bicycles or scooters, especially electric ones that may be borrowed as part of a self-service rental program in which people rent vehicles for short-term use within a town or city.

micromobility is seen as a potential solution to moving people more efficiently around cities"

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E-Bikes Should Not Require Pedaling, Proposes U.K. Government, Diverging From E.U. (www.forbes.com)

submitted 6 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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E-bikes could get faster, more powerful and not require pedaling, in a move announced today by UKGOV. Cycling organizations are opposed to the plans.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 6 months ago (4 children)

No, no and no. In our country, there's a loophole in traffic regulation allowing for anything under 25kph on bike paths if it's electric powered. This resulted in a super dangerous situation for normal cyclists. I commute by normal bike and believe my it's terrible:

food delivery guys switched to electric scooters (think Vespa) and clog bike paths. These things are way too heavy in case of a collision with a pedestrian or cyclist.
the 25kph speed limit is not observed! Either the manufacturers don't care or the drivers tweak their rides.
the acceleration is way too sudden. Even a regular E-Bike needs to ramp up to speed. And you see when the driver engages his drivetrain by way of them moving their legs. With a throttle you just have a lump of mass that suddenly jumps forward. Super unpredictable.

So now we basically have way too big, way too heavy and way too quick objects on bike paths endangering everyone else.

There needs to be strict mass limits for vehicles allowed on bicycle paths. There need to be acceleration limits. There need to be mandatory checks for pedal-less ebikes. If a bike from a manufacturer is found that can exceed the speed limit, there need to be existentially threatening fines. Because their products are threatening lives!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

Thank you, way more eloquent than my rant.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Still, the issue isn't the presence of a throttle. It's the specs of the machine.

The idea that the law should be framed around whether or not the vehicle needs to be peddled is backwards. The relevant machine specs are what the legislation should address. Which is still, primarily, top speed. All incident evidence we have suggests that below ~20mph / 30 kph, even full automobiles see precipitous dropoffs in serious injuries, so that's the place to start. We see most places really serious about bike networks going reasonably further past that (25 or 20 kph). That's all reasonable. If you further want to have requirements on acceleration or weight, it's worth investigating that.

Having the legislation require peddling is just a way to create weird loopholes in the law. It's pearl-clutching and moral panic. And worse, it creates accessibility issues and can pressure people off the bikeped infrastructure who would've used it reasonably and safely back into cars.

The law should narrowly address the actual problem, not some tertiary smell the problem has created. The idea that a bike that has pedals is magically safer than an identical bike with an identical frame, motor, and everything which has a throttle is preposterous.

I am totally convinced an ebike with a throttle is safer and easier to use for its rider than one without one at any speed. I don't think they should be required -- because that's just silly -- but I think anyone the claiming opposite, that only peddled, throttle-less vehicles are safe, has fallen off the deep end.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Dutch?

When i visited Amsterdam i saw some pretty dangerous driving in the bike paths. High speed and heavy weight.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

Nope, Austria. I can imagine they have the same problem in Amsterdam as we have here in Vienna.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

You bring up a key factor here: mass. A traditional bicycle weighing 10kg, going 20kph has far less force/momentum than a 35kg ebike going the same speed, and when using the throttle, the acceleration rate from 0 to 20kph increases dramatically as well.

Currently in the US we have people riding class 3 ebikes (and particularly cargo bikes) that can have base weights of 70 or 80 lbs, plus the weight of the cargo, all going at 28mph with a throttle. That's too much momentum to be safe around pedestrians and other bicyclists on multi-use trails.

IMO once ebikes start getting up to 750+ watt motors with a base weight of over 65 lbs, they should probably require some kind of licensing to operate, and perhaps insurance as well.