this post was submitted on 04 Oct 2023
78 points (86.1% liked)
Programming
17378 readers
213 users here now
Welcome to the main community in programming.dev! Feel free to post anything relating to programming here!
Cross posting is strongly encouraged in the instance. If you feel your post or another person's post makes sense in another community cross post into it.
Hope you enjoy the instance!
Rules
Rules
- Follow the programming.dev instance rules
- Keep content related to programming in some way
- If you're posting long videos try to add in some form of tldr for those who don't want to watch videos
Wormhole
Follow the wormhole through a path of communities [email protected]
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I used to be full on the ORM train. Now I’m a little less enthusiastic. What I actually think people need most of the time is something closer to ActiveRecord. Something that can easily map a result set into a collection of typed objects. You still generally write parameterized SQL, but the work of translating a db decimal into the correct target type on a record object in your language is handled for you (for example). In .net, Dapper is a good example.
I also think most people overemphasize or talk about how other programmers “suck at SQL” waaayy too much.
IMO, for most situations, these are the few high-level things that devs should be vigilant about:
On most of those points, if you don’t have aggregate query counts/metrics on query performance on your clusters, starting to get cute with complex queries is flying blind, and there’s no way to prioritize what to optimize.
For the vast majority of cases, simple, obvious selects that don’t involve special db features are going to do the job for most applications. When the database becomes a bottleneck, there are usually much more effective ways to handle them than to try to hand optimize all the queries.
Lastly, I have a little bit of a theory that part of the reason people do/do not like looking at SQL in code is because it’s a hard context switch from one language to another, often requiring the programmer to switch to “stringly-typed” mode, something we all learn causes huge numbers of headaches in our first few months of programming. Some developers accept that there’s going to be different languages/contexts and not all of them are going to be as fluent or familiar, but accept that this is par for the job. Others recoil from the unfamiliar and want to burn it down. IMO, the former attitude is a lot more productive.
Without a DSL for writing SQL, any sufficiently complex program will end up with string concatinating all over the place. Basically, writing a language with ZERO checks or highlighting or anything. That's asking for trouble.
But coming from Java, I agree that some ORMs go way too far.
It’s necessarily complexity that is easily encapsulated in methods.
If those methods are under test to verify their behavior, trivial typos can be detected instantly, without adding another dialect and more conceptual overhead to a project.
If those methods are not under test, then there’s a tiny bit of help by using a DSL if it can be compile-time checked.