this post was submitted on 10 Sep 2023
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If they required me to work in office (at minimum, they would need to pay me 30k more, 5-10k just to make up for gas and wear and tear on my car, 10k+ for the commute time, and 10k+ for the inconvenience, stress, clothes, eating out more for lunch, dealing with traffic, etc.)
Also, if my leadership was abusive and/or demanded prioritizing work over family and health.
I don't have the highest paid job in the world, but we're comfortable and I'm pretty happy with my company right now. Those are the things that would make me start looking elsewhere.
funny how here in Italy 30k gross per year is a pretty high salary.
software engineers with required experience in a field can get paid as low as 20k and they also want you to actually go to their office.
Cost of living in the US is 40-46% higher than Italy, and we do not have benefits like free or low cost Healthcare like they have in Italy. My wife's maximum out of pocket costs on her work sponsored insurance is almost 10k a year just for in-network services. If she has to go out of network for anything, her max is 18k for those services (which is in addition to the in-network pool). God forbid something terrible would happen, we could be liable for up to 28k in a calendar year just for her medical needs. We're pregnant right now trying to save 30k just so that we're covered for any medical expenses that will come up. My insurance is better than hers, but far from free.
Moreover, education is not free in the US. My tuition and books for my community college where I did the first two years of my degree (to save money) cost over 6k annually and the tuition at the state school where I finished the last two years of my degree was 10k annually. It would have been double that for both if I had gone to a school out of state.
I know I sound spoiled by comparison talking about needing such a big raise to even consider going back to the office. But it's not a 1:1 comparison, is my point. That being said, I definitely am spoiled in comparison your SE's in Italy and other European counties. Even with your lower cost of living and benefits all citizens enjoy, software engineers are underpaid there, imo. The work we do is highly skilled and lucrative. When put to good use and done correctly, it increases efficiency, bringing in more revenue while lowering costs, and it can create new streams of revenue as well. They should be compensated accordingly.
Edit: Oh, also just want to add that I just had to replace my car recently and we bought a, 6 year old, used, low-trim model minivan and that thing cost 25k after negotiating it down from 27k. And no way to take public transport to my company's nearest office from my home, and it's a 40 minute drive each direction for me is non-rush hour traffic. Would likely be double that each way if I had to make it in there for a 9-5. Just for some context on the cost of a vehicle and transport here right now.
thank you for sharing.
and i'm definitely spoiled too, my previous job paid me 35k gross per year and i want no less than that. i agree with you that software engineers here are under paid, but it is deeper than that. the software engineer job (and derivatives) does not exist in Italy. the contracts are generally or extremely generic (and so the pay brackets are reeeally low) or you have a contract for something totally unrelated (a friend of mine work in IT and have a contract for mechanics).
i got spoiled because my first job was from a German company, and their pay is a bit more fair than the ones in Italy.
All good reasons to reject or quit a job. I think as tech workers, we are lucky to be able to reject in office job offers.