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US should not have made concessions to Russia over Ukraine, says German minister
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 13 Feb 2025
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If the US really pull out then Poland is going to say "fuck it" and deliver materiel and ordinance using their own personnel. The latter directly to Russia. And there's nothing that would be able to stop them, so the rest of Europe will take part, in more active or passive roles.
Much of Europe's positioning around the issue right now hinges on not wanting to stoke the Russia/US rivalry bee's nest, with that ceasing to be a concern the Russians are going to get bitch-slapped. And Putin is going to claim victory, having successfully "driven a wedge into the west, broken it apart, having created a multipolar world order". And then Russian history books will say "and then butter became even more expensive, among other things which got worse".
This has been one of the strangest things to me as an American looking at this conflict. I'm not particularly anti-American, but I don't look at us as anything special either. I attribute much of our success as a nation to being industrially ready for WW2 while not really taking any direct attacks from the war. We profited and were able to pocket all that money while almost everyone else had to spend money rebuilding is my simplified understanding.
We seem to have no real skin in the game other than this was a chance to help someone else beat up a rival for us while keeping our hands clean. Why the US seemed to be calling so many of the shots seemed absolutely ridiculous other than we like throwing weaponry wherever we can get away with it. I can understand us not putting troops in Ukraine, but why it felt we limited what anyone else could do when we would be the least directly affected by the outcome was very confusing.
It seems impossible other European countries would not get involved if we walked away, but it did seem like the option that would limit the overall violence the most with us just helping Ukraine. I don't want to see more countries get pulled in, especially since America is usually all about inserting our military in places. Trump bumping off Putin seems more on brand for what his fans usually go for anyway. They already sound in a bad position, and giving them the final nudge off the edge seems like an easy way to look like a real world hero. I dont't know what would come with the collapse of Putin's control, but at least initially I think most people would be in favor of that. Pulling out and leaving it to everyone else or doing things to help Russia now just seems a negative to us and most of you with no benefit to all but probably a single digit number of people.
This made me laugh. I love how some people cope with things.
You're always in the fray, because you want to be seen to be in the fray, because you cannot comprehend yourself to be not in the fray. Most hilariously obvious was Libya: The intervention was 110% France's initiative and Americans somehow managed to attribute it to Hillary. It's an American universal, one portion of you thinks you're responsible for all the peace in the world, the other that you're responsible for every war, the one common theme is that you're the biggest and greatest and all-powerful. Cultural jingoism. The two sides might be at each other's throats but they're still swimming in the same unrecognised water.
Russia vs. EU is way less existential to Russia than Russia vs. US. The stakes are lower because Russia perceives them to be lower. Russia knows the EU won't go out and actually invade Russia, just throw them out of Ukraine and shitcan them into oblivion in trade. With the US, it's the cold war all over again.
This does feel accurate. I wouldn't know how else to explain it at least.
I don't really know much about Libya, as that took place a little before I started to get actively interested in politics. Looking it up now seems there is much more to the situation than I could pick up in 5 minutes and understand anything. I couldn't tell you why we went there, or to Somolia, or most of the places we go. Most of the things America gets involved in, I don't see what the benefit is to the actual American people. I'd much rather we go around giving aid instead of swinging a sword if we want to show others how "great" we are.
I also don't understand the idea that anyone would want to "take over" Russia as it seems their defense for most of their actions seems to be. Does anyone actually want to do that? I feel the world just wants to see them stop having crappy leaders and that's the extent of it. As deep as the US/Russia feud is, I've never heard talk of actually trying to get rid of Russia as a country in any realistic manner.
According to Moscow, Russia is a great power. And, I mean, sure, it's an empire, has been since Ivan the Terrible, it peaked with the Soviet Union and is now trying to re-establish its rightful place in the world.
According to the rest of Russia, where the fuck is our indoor plumbing. It would be right-out trivial to break Russia apart, with its various people and identities scattered over vast areas of territory, given how brittle it is politically and economically. It might still collapse on its own, but a proper invasion would right-out force the issue, also, something something nukes. So even if the US doesn't intend to, an actual face-off with Russia would mean the end of Russia as we know it.