this post was submitted on 12 Nov 2024
69 points (93.7% liked)
Rust
6126 readers
21 users here now
Welcome to the Rust community! This is a place to discuss about the Rust programming language.
Wormhole
Credits
- The icon is a modified version of the official rust logo (changing the colors to a gradient and black background)
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Nope. Specs can have bugs. Here are the bugs in the C++ spec for example:
https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/cwg_toc.html
As I said, specifications are useful and desirable, but the SIL's dogmatic "no spec = unsafe" is clearly not based in reality.
In SIL world, the C++ issues would not be considered bugs but maybe change requests.
The SIL philosophy (as far as I know it from ASIL) is "unsafe unless convinced otherwise". That seems like a good idea when the lifes of humans are on the line. Without a spec how would you argue that a system/product is safe?
(Aside: Software in itself cannot be safe or unsafe because without hardware it cannot do anything. Safety must be assessed holistically including hardware and humans.)
That's just playing with semantics. They are clearly bugs. They are literally called "defect reports".
There are many aspects to safety and it's definitely a good idea to have a spec for a language, but it doesn't automatically mean safety is impossible without it.
The nice thing about abstraction is that you can talk about software without considering the hardware, more or less. If one says "this software is safe", it means it's safe assuming it's running on working hardware.
It doesn't always hold up - sometimes the abstraction leaks, e.g. for things like spectre and rowhammer. And there are sometimes performance concerns. But it's pretty good.
You definitely can do without a language spec. I heard in aerospace another approach is common: They use whatever compiler and then verify the binary. That means different tradeoffs of course.