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“This Is a Collapse of the Democratic Party”: Ralph Nader on Roots of Trump’s Win Over Harris
(www.democracynow.org)
this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2024
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They need to fire the leaders of Democratic party. Find new blood and new direction. Swing to the right didn't help them.
So they did that once, Hillary was all set to take the nomination in 2008 then this young charismatic guy took the nomination. Obama served 2 terms and the Republicans lost their mind over it....
..... but maybe the Democrats did too? Because Hillary still thought it was Her Turn in 2016, and there were a lot of machinations to make sure they didnt run a Socialist. Then I distinctly remember all the shenanigans to insure that Joe Biden got the nomination in 2020. And we all know what happened this year. I actually think Harris was a good candidate, I just wish she got the chance to prove it in a meaningful primary. (Edited to add: if she had lost a primary, all it would have meant was that Democrats would have found an even better candidate.)
The Democrats do have a deep bench of Governors and Senators who might make really good Presidents. They even proved that strategy worked in 2008. I wonder why they are so afraid to prove it in a primary.
Disagree, Harris would not have been close to winning at all if there was a primary. Even Tim Walz would have absolutely smoked her in a primary.
While I'm not as sure as you are about that, if it had happened that way I wouldn't have minded at all. I liked Harris as a candidate, and feel she would have made a fine President. but I also like other Democrats.
We'll have to watch Walz. His current term ends with the 2026 election, and while he's not term limited he has already been in office for two terms. This campaign might give him the bug to try again in 2028.
Harris didn't even win her home state in the primary she actually competed in. She was always the wrong choice.
The only criticism I have with that is the transfer of campaign funds. Harris was able to take control of the war chest immediately. That's the one justification I can see for giving her the nod.
Yeah that’s really it, I want primaries that feel fair. The staggering of them is one of the least fair elements imo, it’s how none of the people who anyone was excited for won in 2020
If the Dems want to be relevant in the future they need an FDR, not even an Obama will cut it right now. The American people are demanding change, and so it’s going to have to be pretty radical improvements to life or the fascists are going to keep winning. And it needs to be widespread. I’m not saying that they need to start singing the international and calling for us to overthrow the capitalist regime on international women’s day (though, it would be based as hell). But M4A needs to be one of their milder offers and they need to sell people on it. “Life is hard, and corporations have fucked you, the Republicans are telling you to hate your neighbors. We’re going to make this country more competitive for your quality of life, and if the private sector cannot or will not provide you with your needs at an attainable price then we will”
One of the many problems with the Democratic primary was the attitude that we can skip them altogether for incumbents. Dean Phillips got a lot of criticism for daring to challenge Biden, but I have to admit (in hindsight) that he was onto something. If they had staged a debate early in the primary cycle, we might have seen Biden's decline earlier. Phillips might not have ended up the nominee, but we might have had a more rigorous verring of the eventual nominee.
If there is one reform I want to see in the Democratic party going forward, it's that all Primaries be contested. we shouldn't give an incumbent a pass. We should hear him defend themselves in debates before they become the nominee. Heck, have the sitting VP debate the incumbent. Why not?
I agree that it would have been better to have legitimacy, despite the results. Now you have legitimacy, and bad results.
Obama, sadly was a failure. Better than any other president since FDR and Carter, but that's not saying much. America wanted change and all we got was the ACA from him and a few less terrible trade deals. Obama deported more people than Trump and never fixed the decline in the middle class. I turned 18 when Obama first ran and was so excited for all the "change" and nothing improved sustainably for the average American. He could have solidified himself as the best ever but road the middle too often and now the party is officially dead.
We keep using that line about deportation but the problem is deportation is popular. Speedy removal and asylum in Mexico are popular. It's easy for people to blame immigrants.
In the same polls Americans support deportations but also legalization of immigrants in about equal measure.
https://www.vox.com/policy/368889/immigration-border-polls-election-2024-trump-harris
https://news.gallup.com/poll/647123/sharply-americans-curb-immigration.aspx
Republicans have primed Americans into thinking illegal immigrants are criminals bringing in crime and drugs into the country. Which is completely fabricated and untrue. However, since Biden, Democrats have failed to counter message and instead adopted the right wing on immigration. That's the entire reason we see this contradiction. A genuine counter message would be popular. And it's essential considering that Trump is going to start mass deportations, which means concentration camps for millions of Americans
I agree, under the heading that if they can cart anyone away that easily, they can cart me away that easily.
Yeah, the concentration camps will absolutely extend to any legal immigrants, and even people that look 'immigrant passing'. (Not white immigrants like from Canada or Europe of course, it's all racially motivated). I won't be surprised if Trump begins to deport political enemies
https://democrats.org/contact-us/
Their system is so bad they accepted "[email protected]" as my email so go have a blast. I encourage everyone to do so.
I told them all to resign and congratulated them on chasing the mystical moderate all the way off a cliff.
Implying anyone in the party even knows how to open and read emails received from that form
Thanks for doing that, they'll probably be sorted out by 2026!
Why would they reject that email address? It’s a valid email?
Idk, sometimes I've tried putting fake emails addresses on other sites with a similar format and I get an error that says it isn't a valid email. I don't really know enough about validation of those things though, I just assumed there was a way to check past is it [email protected]
They've already started the talking point that they swing too left and that's why they lost
Fuckers will NEVER learn.
They don’t want to learn. They’re both right wing parties.
Welcome to 'murica
Yeah, courting far left people like Dick Cheney was the problem. Next time they will just run Ivanka Trump and if you're against her, you are a misogynist.
Just kidding, they won't run her until she's at least 60, everyone knows people who are younger than that can't politics.
I don't even need to fact check this. They do the same bullshit every time.
What's the definition of insanity again? The DNC doesn't appear to know.
Really think they have the ability to see that? Because I don't. Nor does history. My gut tells me the Dems are going to move dramatically further right after this because "they didn't appeal enough to the 'center'" and "they can't rely on the left to support them". Our only option might be a leftist coalition committed to not voting dem until they capitulate or we gain enough support to be a viable party.
Worse, they do not want to. That would be bad for their billionaire buddies. The same buddies that funnel untold millions to both parties at the same time, to ensure they get what they want either way.
This is why I'm hoping that all the impending hardships reflect poorly on Trump's term, and he can merely serve as the Hoover to an FDR-like successor.
Would be great if we avoided all the unnecessary deaths along the way, but we wouldn't be human if we didn't insist on learning everything the hard way.
You've been subscribed to Hoover facts.
✨ Herbert Hoover was raised as a Quaker. ✨
Yeah, he seems committed to collapsing a strained economy. It’s going to hurt. With any luck he’s going to struggle with his social control problems and focus on doing things that hurt everyone.
No, watch, they’ll run someone like Gavin Newsom in 4 years.
Ooh is it his turn?
Better not be. He’s 100% a corporate suit.
So guaranteed?
Hahahaha, he's been lining up a 2028 run for the past few years.
That's been the talk.
I've seen stirring of it.
Paywalled link, but you can see enough: https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/emilyhoeven/article/newsom-trump-democratic-party-19893871.php
We need better people who won't vote for Trump.
Seriously though - Biden did win. And your conclusion now is that that they need "new blood"? Biden's as old-blood as you can get.
I love how everybody is blaming the party rather than the idiots voting for the crazy grandpa. Kamala was the better candidate. The people are broken more than the parties.
Kamala was the better candidate. But that doesn't mean she was a good candidate. If they want to win then making people choose between a pile of shit and a turd sandwich isn't the winning move.
They were choosing between a competent adult and the first US president to actively try to overturn the results of an election in the United States. A potted plant would be a better option than Trump.
Who do you imagine would have done better? Trump is promising the biggest deportations in US history - you think an ultra-liberal is going to compete with that?? The people of the United States are terrible - they picked this - they are to blame.
Biden barely won. No one should take 2020 as evidence of expertise. That was an embarrassingly nail-biting result.
I mean, he did win tho.
He won against a sitting president that had botched a pandemic so poorly that people seem to have forgotten that he spent the previous 3 years as a national embarrassment and complete buffoon
Kamala wasn't the better candidate. Biden would've done better. They forced the old man out in the middle of a campaign. Kamala never fared well on her own. Stupid Dems thought because Biden lost the debate he'd lose the election. Well Trump lost the freakin debate, but did it matter?! NO! THAT'S why they need to be gone. They got lucky with Biden. They ain't getting lucky again.
Biden barely beat Trump in 2020 and is now much older and the incumbent who people typically blame all the current issues on. They made the right choice forcing him to step down but he never should have run for a second term in the first place but instead defeat Trump and run a single term like he said he would in 2020. The DNC should have spent the last 4 years grooming someone more appealing to the public instead of trying shift the party to be more like the Republicans.
Yeah, Harris's campaign was bad, but she at least had a chance. We wouldn't be as devastated today if Biden was the nominee because we'd all know the result. What would have been much better was actually having a primary rather than needing to tiptoe around his ego for half the campaign.
What do you do when the nation wants a fascist and you don't want a fascist? Do you run a fascist just to win? Or do you lose elections?
We're blaming the wrong people. Trump won by stoking fear, prejudice and outrage. How do you compete with that without feeding it?
Trump lost the debate in a way that spread his message and read like standing up to the liberals to his base. Biden lost in the way that said, "I'm done, let me retire".