this post was submitted on 04 Sep 2024
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[–] [email protected] 390 points 2 months ago (24 children)

Now, I'm all for the freedom of defending your country... But am I the only one thinking that this is presented in a bit too much of a good light? Like, what is the title supposed to make me feel? If the nationalities were reversed, would this have been posted here still?

I genuinely thank you for sharing this info, but I can't help feeling uncomfortable reading about atrocious killing devices in a technology thread.

[–] [email protected] 167 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

I'm right there with you. My first reaction to the video in the article was "well that's terrifying".

[–] [email protected] 22 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Wait until you hear about the semi-autonomous killer drone swarms, designed to prevent signal jamming (by not needing an operator).

[–] [email protected] 32 points 2 months ago
[–] [email protected] 106 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Russia is already using thermite charges, thermobaric weapons and tear gas. They get what's coming to them.

[–] [email protected] 57 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 23 points 2 months ago (6 children)

Even the US uses white phosphorus against infantry in violation of international law. I can't imagine what we'd resort to with Russian soliders on our soil.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 2 months ago

Of course they do, it's main use is smoke generation.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 months ago

It’s only a violation of international law when used near civilians

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Oh man.....Geneva convention would be out the window and most land based invaders at that point would probably beg to be shipped back. And it's not because of the military in America. It's because of its inhabitants. When the banjos start tuning in the Appalachian forests you know Hell is a safer space than anywhere you're going to reach.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 2 months ago (5 children)

That's easy to say without bullet holes in your buildings and bombs being found every few months in your capital.

IMO the US public is presenting so warlike because they never experienced war directly to a scale of WWII as a populace, especially not in living memory.

War does not look like "let's use all our guns and go kick commie ass", especially resisting an occupation. It looks like your hometown burned and poisoned, never to be rebuilt in your lifetime. It looks like people you know and care about dying, being raped with impunity, or just plain disappearing. If you pick up a rifle, you are going up against trained and experienced and also more importantly, quite desensitized enemies who have been doing what you are planning to do for months if not years. And even if you shoot one, they will hang ten of your townsfolk tomorrow.

Just look at Mariupol and Gaza and think whether anyone would thrive in that environment.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 months ago (5 children)

Yeah I'm not sure that war crimes work that way. You don't get a pass because the opponent is doing illegal things.

[–] [email protected] 40 points 2 months ago

Using incendiaries away from civilians isn’t a war crime regardless of which side uses them

[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 months ago

I don't think this qualifies as a war crime

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago

You literally get a pass because its not illegal to set an enemy on fire any more than its illegal to blow a hole in their guts with a bullet or fill their torso full of shrapnel. I'm not sure why you think it would be.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago

If your enemy makes it very clear that they want to see you dead and your nation destroyed no matter the cost, why should you be beholden to giving them an advantage? Ukraine won't win with moral superiority.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I see where you're coming from. It's like tolerating the intolerant. There is a point where Ukraine needs to choose between total destruction by Russia, or doing whatever it takes to get their land and people back.

It's not like Russia is held accountable for war crimes. Why would we be so critical of Ukraine when no one is doing anything to stop the atrocities of Putin?

I don't happily endorse the thermite drones, but you won't find me playing judge on what Ukraine is doing. They didn't start this war.

[–] [email protected] 76 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I take no delight in killing but Russian forces could leave Ukraine at any point and put an end to it.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 months ago (5 children)

Can the individual soldiers just give up and leave?

[–] [email protected] 27 points 2 months ago

The russian soldiers are in an awful predicament in this war. But they are still the aggressors and Ukraine has the right (obligation even, seeing what Russia tends to do to civilian population it conquers) to defend itself against them..and as awful as these weapons are, they have not been used in an illegal way here according to international law (something that Russia doesn't give a flying fuck about, btw.).
Personally, I don't see a moral issue here though I of course would prefer if noone had to die of which only happens in the case of Putin withdrawing his troops right now.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

The vast majority of them could simply not have volunteered. Also, you can surrender.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago

He can surrender, like many already did.

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[–] [email protected] 63 points 2 months ago (4 children)

If the nationalities were reversed, would this have been posted here still?

If Russia was illegally invaded & genocided by Ukraine as a consequence for wanting to become democratic and joining the West, then yes, people would rather root for Russia instead.

If Russia don't want their men to get "atrociously killed", then they can just fuck off back into their own country.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (9 children)

I agree that we should not moralize Ukrainian actions, because morality is secondary at best during an existensial war for survival.

But upholding the Geneva conventions is not about morality. It's about trying to prevent the worst and most horrific actions and outcomes that happen during war.

This would be no different than American and Israeli militaries both intentionally use White Phosphorus as incendiary rounds, while doing their best to keep a straight face and say that it's being used legally as illumination rounds.

Is Ukraine using this strictly under the legally defined laws of war? I don't know.

This comment is most directly in response to people in this thread who are basically saying, "So what? Who cares if it's used illegally as an incendiary round?"

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

It’s about trying to prevent the worst and most horrific actions and outcomes that happen during war.

No. It's about trying to prevent militarily unnecessary worst and most horrific actions and outcomes.

White Phosphorus as incendiary rounds,

Perfectly legal. You can't use them as chemical rounds (they're shit at that anyways), or, as any other incendiary weapons, close to civilians. By far the most common use is as tracer rounds and in smokescreens, though.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

It’s not an incendiary round though, it’s an incendiary weapon. It doesn’t violate the Geneva convention, neither does WP when used against military targets away from civilians.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

I think you're confused. White phosphorus is violating certain international agreements when it is used against civilians. Ukraine is using this weapon to choke out Russian positions.

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 2 months ago

Exactly, I hate what the Russians are doing, but as a former grunt, I'll never rejoice in killing.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago

Boo fucking hoo. Most of them willingly went into Ukraine to kill, pillage, rape and torture innocent ukranians. They always have an option to desert, yet they still choose to murder. I will never have any sympathy towards them.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago

I do agree with you that the tone of the article doesn't really match the nature of what we're seeing, or that Ukraine is in a war of national survival.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I was thinking that too. We already have other weapons that are this effective, and we've banned them.

In most cases for the banned weapons, the US got to use them for a while first, which is what's happening here.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

And the really fun ones we refuse to sign for so technically we aren't bound by them.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

That article reads as entirely neutral. Neither positive or negative. The last lines even read as a bit of a negative to me.

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