auk

joined 9 months ago
MODERATOR OF
[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago (5 children)

The bot banned you from [email protected] I don't know how long ago. You had a lower rank, after a while, than even Media Bias Fact Check bot. Somehow. That's your violation of the letter of the law.

I can't even find the entry in the modlog because your record of moderation actions is so extensive that it's almost impossible to make sense of. I seriously tried, and since your account ban and the endless list of deletions and bans people have been giving you, I couldn't find it. It's hard to find stuff for now-deleted accounts, I guess. It's there though. You were banned quite a while ago from [email protected] under the now-deleted account. I can find a date or a moderation record if you want to see it. Anyway, you put yourself in a position to be able to DM people again after being banned for some kind of offense in DMs, and started posting in new politics communities with the exact same stuff after being banned for a pattern of behavior that I would say the mods were excessively generous about, to the point of moderation malpractice. That's your violation of the spirit of the law.

You did ban evasion both in letter and in spirit. And, you're pretending with an innocent face not to understand how anyone could have a negative reaction to you, when you're clearly aiming for exactly that negative reaction with a lot of your past posts. That's the proactive element that would lead me, if I were an admin, to ban you on sight.

You need to reevaluate your approach to posting, or else get accustomed to people wanting to ban you. It's the world's most natural reaction to what you like doing.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 days ago (9 children)

Being the same person who was banned, and posting from a new account, is ban evasion.

You can find a place that can put up with you, if you want to try. That's the sense in which your voice won't be silenced. The same people who've seen what you have to say and want no part of it are not obligated to continue listening to it forever, with you disabling their attempts not to hear from you anymore. That's protecting their rights to use Lemmy as they want to use it.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 6 days ago

You're welcome to your dickness. The name is terrible. It just means no trolls.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 days ago

@[email protected] I don't know where to put this for sh.itjust.works, so I'm picking an admin at random.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

"No fair pointing out that the other guy wants to kill the children and burn the world! I want to know: How good is the alternative. It better be fantastic. Like really good. Or else I don't care."

(Kamala Harris's record is fine, but it barely matters. If one item on the menu is rat poison and the other is edible food, I don't need to know how many Michelin stars the food got.)

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 weeks ago (8 children)

So instead of "Democrats," it should say "Netanyahu."

And also, Trump has a machine gun, and the Democrats are sitting in the corner saying, "Hey, don't do that. I don't think you should do that." They don't seem to be doing much other than that.

And the same people who are screaming about how the Democrats bought the bullets in the first place are also, for the most part, screaming that Trump will do 10 times worse, and please don't elect him. Also he wants to walk outside and start shooting all kinds of random people all over the apartment complex. Also he wants to give Netanyahu his second machine gun so Netanyahu can go through the apartment finishing off the guy's family. He's really mad about the whole "Hey, don't do that," thing.

I am glad that you are safe enough to not be able to see a difference between Kamala Harris's sometime reprehensible foreign policy, and Trump who simply wants to burn the world and kill the children. Not everyone has that luxury. Please don't subject them to Trump, while you're making your little meme.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 weeks ago

And how the unusual structures of Tesla and SpaceX lead to him being much more difficult to remove as CEO from those companies, as compared to more conventionally organized businesses.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

This is a perfect example of the criminally underused word "sophomoric." Almost all teenagers and young male adults go through a phase of it. It's why second-year college students are "sophomores," because right at that age is where it usually hits is peak.

It means that you're smart enough to know that Elon Musk isn't the CEO of Twitter, which is significant. Congratulations! But you're also convinced that what you know is all a person would need to know, and other people being stupid is usually the explanation for things. You don't take time to read the article which is talking about Tesla and SpaceX, both of which he is the CEO of. Nope, you just see "Elon Musk" and "CEO" and you know that a lot of people aren't as well-informed as you, so you insert the word "Twitter" and spring to the races, convinced that you are right and this global media empire must just be full of idiots. You don't even need to read the article. After all, you're smarter than them.

Usually people grow out of it, eventually, as they contact the real world which contains other people who are also smart, and learn to think twice.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

He doesn't know how to pronounce "Goebbels," does he.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 weeks ago

A few times a week, I regret calling the community "pleasant." It was meant to mean "jerk-free," but it's a misnomer. US politics isn't all that pleasant right at the mo.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

There's a big difference between nonsense, bad faith, and something coherent that you just don't agree with.

Being unable to make sense of something that isn't what you believe, pretending that the person saying it must be horrible or stupid, is a hallmark of intellectual weakness. That's your option, but I would recommend that you grow out of it at some point.

The robot has nothing to do with this. No one involved is going to get banned or moderated, because everyone involved is interested at least on some level in real conversation and debate. I'm just weighing in to tell you interpersonally that I think you're being a jerk in this instance. I think it would be to your benefit to back up and realize that the person may have a point about self-medicating with weed being a bad idea after a certain point, irrespective of any legal issues. Whether or not you wind up ultimately being convinced by any of it, that's a more mature way to do it than immediately going on the warpath against them.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 weeks ago (3 children)

Guy. Relax.

He's sharing his viewpoint. You might not agree with it. You have no call to be escalating into "bad faith" "sloppy" "childlike" "weak trolling" and so on.

I'm leaving this up, I don't see a reason to censor you from speaking to people this way if you want to, but you need to chill.

 

CCL is promoting the Energy Permitting Reform Act of 2024, but it looks to me mostly like a giveaway to the fossil fuel lobby.

  • It gives a 150-day statute of limitations for legal challenges to energy projects
  • It gives a quota for annual oil and gas lease sales through 2029
  • It undoes the LNG export pause, and sets a 90-day deadline for approving or denying future export applications, basically preventing future pauses after the fact like the LNG pause

It includes some permitting streamlining for green energy projects, but it's not clear to me how big a deal that was in the first place, and most of its material support seems aimed at the fossil fuel industry.

Did I miss something, or is all the green nature of this bill mostly a Manchin invention?

 

Some people have been accusing me of creating this bot so I can manifest a one-viewpoint echo chamber. They tell me that they already know that I'm trying to create an echo chamber, anything I say otherwise is a lie, and they're not interested in talking about the real-world behavior of the bot, even when I offer to fix anything that seems like a real echo chamber effect that it's creating.

I don't think it's creating an echo chamber. We've had a Zionist, an opponent of US imperialism, a lot of centrists, some never-Bideners, some fact checking, and one "fuck you." The code to delete downvoted comments from throwaway accounts is pretty much working, but it's only been triggered once. Someone said Mike Johnson's ears were ugly and that made him a bad person, which everyone hated and downvoted, so the bot deleted it since the person that said it didn't have other recent history to be able to use to categorize them. I sent the user a note explaining how the throwaway detection works.


I want to list out the contentious topics from the week, and how I judge the bot's performance and the result for each one, to see if the community agrees with me about how things are looking:

Biden's supreme court changes

I like the performance here. The pleasant comments have a diversity of opinion, but people aren't fighting or shouting their opinions back and forth at each other. The lemmy.world section looks argumentative and low-quality.

Blue MAGA

I don't love the one-sidedness of the pleasant comments section. It's certainly more productive with less argumentation, which is good, but there are only two representatives of one of the major viewpoints chiming in, which starts to sound like an attempt at an echo chamber.

I read the lemmy.world version for a while, and I started to think the result here is acceptable. The pleasant version still has people who have every ability to speak up for the minority viewpoint, but it was limited to people who were being coherent about it, and giving reasons. A lot of the people who spoke up in the lemmy.world version, on both sides, were combative and got engaged in long hostile exchanges, without listening or backing up what they were saying. That's what I don't want.

Biden's Palestine policy

I don't love "fuck you." I debated whether it was protected political speech expressing a viewpoint on the article, or a personal attack, and I couldn't decide, so I left it up. For one thing, I think it's good to err on the side of letting people say what they want to the admins, to bend over backwards just slightly to avoid a situation where some users or their viewpoints are more special, or shielded from firm disagreement, than others. And yes, I recognize the irony.

This one is my least favorite comments section. The user who's engaging in a hostile exchange of short messages has a lot of "rank" to be able to say what they want, and the current model assumes that since people generally like their comments, they should be allowed to speak their mind. The result, however, is starting to look combative to me. It's still far better than the exchanges from lemmy.world, but I don't love it.

What does everyone else think? I don't know if anyone but me cares about these issues in this depth, but I'm interested in hearing any feedback.

 

It took longer than I thought, but I came up with a promising approach for throwaway accounts. The bot can't use the same parameter set to accounts with only a few interactions as it does for normal accounts, without getting it either too loose for the new accounts or too strict for the old accounts. I had to make a special stricter setting for any account that only has a few interactions in its recent history.

1.3% of users have enough interaction data to judge for sure that people have problems with them, and they get banned just like before. 2% more users on top of that will trigger the stricter filter if they try to post, and get a polite message that they need to interact more before they can participate. 97% of users don't need to worry about any of this, just like before.

I think that approach will work. It's not done yet but I have the parameters in place for it. I think the bot is doing a good job. I was expecting it to get it wrong a few times, and I have found a couple of users it made mistakes on, but it's doing better than I thought it would.

 

Every political thread is chock full of people being angry and unreasonable. I did some data mining, and most of the hate is coming from a very small percentage of the community, and the rest of the community is very consistent in downvoting them.

The problem is that even with human moderators enforcing a series of rules, most of those people are still in the comments making things miserable. So I made a bot to do it instead.

[email protected] is a bot that uses an algorithm similar to PageRank to analyze the Lemmy community, and preemptively bans about 1-2% of posters, that consistently get a negative reaction a lot of the time. Take a look at an example of the early results. See how nice that is? It's just people talking, and when they disagree, they say things like "clearly that part is wrong" and "your additions are good information though."

It's too early to tell how well it will work on a larger scale, but I'm hopeful. So, welcome to my experiment. Let's talk politics without all the abusive people coming into the picture too. Please come in and test if this thing can work in the long run.

Pleasant Politics

[email protected]

 

Hi everyone.

I am mostly pleased with how Santabot performed in its first live test today, but I also found issues which I am fixing. I made it a lot more strict and fixed a bug. Details to follow:

Mostly, I was surprised and pleased that the bot was coming up with right judgements for people I was talking with, but this thread has one comment that seems reasonable, and one comment that seemed like exactly the kind of inflammatory content I wanted the bot to eliminate. I looked into it for a while, and eventually had to revisit my attitude toward users that have a lot of "positive rank" counterbalancing also a lot of "negative rank." I think that the ratio of upvoted content to negative content that it's reasonable to ask someone to produce should be higher than 1:1. So I made it 2:1. That eliminated the user posting the offending comment while leaving the user posting the legitimate comment. I didn't have time to go into a full detailed analysis, but I did some spot checks on how that affected its other judgements, and generally I liked what I saw:

  • The percentage of total users banned has gone way up, from 0.4% to 2.8%.
  • @[email protected], @[email protected], and other specific users that I looked into and thought should remain unbanned, are still unbanned by the bot's analysis.
  • Some users who weren't banned by this morning's configuration, but which seemed like they should be, are now banned again.

In addition to the algorithm issues, I found a bad bug. The bot is supposed to remove recent postings when banning someone, to stop throwaway accounts from coming in and posting and then being banned but with the content staying up. However, the bot was simply removing all recent content from all users whenever it banned anybody, and my test suite was too simple-minded to catch the problem until it was live and removed a random innocent user's comment and sent them a message that they were banned. Oops. I partly fixed it once I saw it. Maybe I shouldn't have used Futurama Santa as the avatar.

That's the update. More to come. If you have questions, comments, or concerns, please by all means say something and I'll do my best at a response.

 

[email protected] is live! If you missed the previous discussion, it's a community with a robot moderator that bans you if the community doesn't like your comments, even if you're not "breaking the rules." The hope is to have a politics community without the arguing. [email protected] has an in-depth explanation of how it works.

I was trying to keep the algorithm a secret, to make it more difficult to game the system, but the admins convinced me that basically nobody would participate if they could be banned by a secret system they couldn't know anything about. I posted the code as open source. It works like PageRank, by aggregating votes and assigning trust to users based on who the community trusts and banning users with too low a trust level.

I've also rebalanced the tuning of the algorithm and worked on it more. It now bans a tiny number of users (108 in total right now), but still including a lot of obnoxious accounts. There are now no slrpnk users banned. It's a lot of lemmy.world people, a few from lemmy.ml or lemm.ee, and a scattering from other places.

Check it out! Let me know what you think.

3
submitted 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
 

There is clearly a problem that most of the politics and news communities on Lemmy are unpleasant places to take part in discussion. People yell at each other. The tone of disagreements is that of saying what your opinion is, and insulting the other person if they don't agree with your opinion, or a bunch of people giving quick one-off statements like "well I think it's this way" or "no you're wrong" which adds nothing. I've heard more than one person say that they simply don't participate in politics or news communities because of it.

Well, behold:

I have made some technology which attempts to take a much heavier handed approach to moderation, by just detecting assholes or people who aren't really contributing to the conversation, in other communities, and just banning them pre emptively en masse. In its current form, it bans about half of hexbear and lemmygrad, and almost all of the users on lemmy.world who post a nonstop stream of obnoxiously partisan content. You know the ones.

In practice it's basically a whitelist for posting that's easy to get on: Just don't be a dick.

I'd like to try the experiment of having a ~~political~~ community with this software running the banlist, and see how it works in practice, and maybe expand it to a news community that runs the same way. There's nothing partisan about the filtering. You can have whatever opinion you want. You just can't be unproductive or an asshole about the way you say your opinion. And the bans aren't permanent, they are transient based on the user's recent past behavior.

(Edit: I think making a general news community might fit better with slrpnk than politics. In thinking about it and talking with people, I think electoral politics just doesn't belong in the slrpnk feed, but maybe general news specifically with the political bickering that comes along with it being muted, would be a positive for the instance at the same time as I get to test out my little software project.)

I don't want to explain in too much detail how the tech works, because I think some segment of assholes will want to evade the tech to come into the community and be assholes again. But I'd also want to set up a meta community where anyone who did get banned can ask questions or make complaints about it. (As long as that offering doesn't turn into too much of a shit show that is.)

Is slrpnk a place where a little experiment like this could find a good home? What does everyone think of the idea?

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