ChairmanMeow

joined 1 year ago
[–] ChairmanMeow 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

I've toyed with this game concept in my head for a while, really happy to see some studio just built it. It looks a lot like what I had envisioned!

Instant wishlist for me!

[–] ChairmanMeow 4 points 1 day ago

The name is a reference to Schenkman, but it did refer to the same character.

Piet's origins are all over the place, and form a perfect cocktail of "it looks bad, but the explanation is fairly innocent". There's elements from chimney sweepers, traditional Venetian Moorish outfits, German Krampus, the practical element of having black makeup making a close relative hard to recognize for children, etc... that all combined without much of a clear decision-making process. It all happened very gradually and naturally within Dutch society.

Hopefully we'll have this changed everywhere soon enough, though there are still some conservative areas that resist the change.

[–] ChairmanMeow 8 points 1 day ago

Yeh his origins are all over the place and combine in a pretty terrible way. Changing it is for the better.

Sinterklaas supposedly lives in Spain, and some origins suggest Piet is modelled off of Moorish slaves there. But the outfit doesn't match; it's based on traditional Moorish outfits as they wore in Venice, and those Moors were free. The bright colours are also reminiscent of the southern Dutch as well as the Venetian carnival.

Decades ago, Piet would announce himself with the clanking of chains. That makes people think of slavery, but they're not chains as used to bind slaves. Rather, it appears to be coming from the German Krampus, which is more of a boogeyman that scares kids. Piet then changed to make him a friendly and non-scary alternative to Krampus.

Piet has always been described as a "knecht", which some people interpret as "slave" but that's a bad translation of the world. A knecht is just someone who helps with some task, and who does just get paid for it like with any other job. A farmhand for example could be a type of knecht, and they aren't slaves either.

Combined together, it's the perfect cocktail of "it looks terrible, but does seem coincidental". Refusing to change it because of "tradition" when people who are uncomfortable kindly ask to do so, that does appear to be the most racist thing about him.

[–] ChairmanMeow 11 points 1 day ago

Dutch Wikipedia has the first references to blackness from soot pinned to an image from the 1870s:

"Zwarte Piet had in deze tijd nog niet zijn huidige naam; zo is hij op een centsprent uit 1870 afgebeeld als een schoorsteenveger met de naam Zwartjan." https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet#:~:text=Zwarte%20Piet%20had%20in%20deze%20tijd%20nog%20niet%20zijn%20huidige%20naam%3B%20zo%20is%20hij%20op%20een%20centsprent%20uit%201870%20afgebeeld%20als%20een%20schoorsteenveger%20met%20de%20naam%20Zwartjan.

Translates to: "Black Pete did not have his current name yet, he was depicted on an image from the 1870s as a chimney sweeper named "Black Jan" (Jan is a stereotypically Dutch name, one of the most common Dutch first names. Pete, or Piet in Dutch, is also a very common Dutch name).

[–] ChairmanMeow 11 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Dutch Wikipedia has the first references to blackness from soot pinned to an image from the 1870s:

"Zwarte Piet had in deze tijd nog niet zijn huidige naam; zo is hij op een centsprent uit 1870 afgebeeld als een schoorsteenveger met de naam Zwartjan." https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet#:~:text=Zwarte%20Piet%20had%20in%20deze%20tijd%20nog%20niet%20zijn%20huidige%20naam%3B%20zo%20is%20hij%20op%20een%20centsprent%20uit%201870%20afgebeeld%20als%20een%20schoorsteenveger%20met%20de%20naam%20Zwartjan.

Translates to: "Black Pete did not have his current name yet, he was depicted on an image from the 1870s as a chimney sweeper named "Black Jan" (Jan is a stereotypically Dutch name, one of the most common Dutch first names. Pete, or Piet in Dutch, is also a very common Dutch name).

[–] ChairmanMeow 14 points 1 day ago (2 children)

It's on December 5th.

As a Dutch person who grew up with this tradition, the tradition doesn't have all the same racist connotations that historical blackface does. "Zwarte Piet" isn't put in a bad light but as an approachable friend who brings children gifts. I personally never experienced him as a negative stereotype in any way. There's been plenty of attempts to tie his origins to slavery or denigrating racist stereotypes, but historians just don't really find conclusive evidence for that. The reason seems to be more like "just cause" rather than some racist reasoning. He just sort of "popped up", people liked the character so he stuck around.

Nonetheless, some people are uncomfortable with it. And I don't think changing the colour of his skin should matter all that much. The story told to kids was that he's only black due to all the chimney soot (which he climbs through to deliver presents), but a couple years the national broadcaster had a story (there's a sort of "Sinterklaas News" programme for kids with a new exciting story each year for why this time maybe you won't get presents but at the last moment everything works out anyway) where the boat that Sinterklaas and the Pieten take from Spain to the Netherlands sailed through a rainbow, so now all the Pieten have all kinds of different rainbow colours instead of black. They ditched some of the other stereotypical stuff (like the bright red lips and earrings) quietly because kids don't notice nor care about that.

I don't agree that celebrating with Zwarte Piet (Black Pete) makes someone a racist. It's an old tradition people were born into, it's just normal to them and people certainly don't typically celebrate with Zwarte Piet in order to be negative towards people of colour in any way. Hell, the Netherlands is fairly well known for being tolerant.

I do however agree that if someone asks to change it because it's uncomfortable, that getting angry about it and deliberately not changing it because of "muh traditions" certainly does seem quite racist. Piet being black is just a detail, it's not part of the core of the tradition. Like, are these people in the pocket of "big black makeup" or something? Just make them all kinds of colours, looks a lot more cheerful too imo. Thankfully the country is moving away from him being black so hopefully in the future the debate can be laid to rest.

[–] ChairmanMeow 10 points 2 days ago

You could become president with an attitude like that!

[–] ChairmanMeow 11 points 2 days ago

Which is why he bought the closest thing to being president. So now he wants to de facto be president.

[–] ChairmanMeow 3 points 2 days ago

Wasn't Poland famously invaded for that land?

[–] ChairmanMeow 5 points 2 days ago

Season 1 Michael was a bit more of a jackass though. Maybe he could've done it.

[–] ChairmanMeow 18 points 3 days ago (2 children)

I vape Arch btw

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