BatmanAoD

joined 1 year ago
[–] BatmanAoD 43 points 2 months ago (7 children)

I was hoping this might start with some actual evidence that programmers are in fact getting worse. Nope, just a single sentence mentioning "growing concern", followed by paragraphs and paragraphs of pontification.

[–] BatmanAoD 2 points 2 months ago

Oh. Well, in that case, his resignation message was pretty matter-of-fact, not dramatic. He did link, in a note at the end of the email, to the now-infamous "the fact is, you're not going to force everyone to learn Rust" video, and the drama was more or less self-manufacturing from there. But to be honest, I think it's a good thing that more people are seeing that video than otherwise would have, and I can't really blame him for linking to it.

And isn't it somewhat concerning that bringing Rust to the kernel is still so controversial and highly "political", several years after initial approval by Linus and Greg KH?

[–] BatmanAoD 1 points 2 months ago

Ah, sorry, I misinterpreted your comment somehow. Yes, Rust is bootstrappable today, it's just a much longer process than it would be if there were a compiler written in C.

[–] BatmanAoD 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

You cannot, today, build a Rust compiler directly from C, but you're right that people are working on it. See this recent post: https://notgull.net/announcing-dozer/

Edit: you can certainly bootstrap Rust from C via C++, as the article covers. I misinterpreted the comment above.

[–] BatmanAoD 12 points 2 months ago (2 children)

He spent four years as the project maintainer. That's hardly "flouncing off."

[–] BatmanAoD 24 points 2 months ago

It would be a valid point if he weren't literally speaking over the people trying to tell him that they're not demanding he learn Rust: https://youtu.be/WiPp9YEBV0Q?si=b3OB4Y9LU-ffJA4c&t=1548

[–] BatmanAoD 26 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Oh jeeze, you have no idea. You can watch it yourself: https://youtu.be/WiPp9YEBV0Q?si=b3OB4Y9LU-ffJA4c&t=1548

That timestamp is about where the audience member (a maintainer of ext4 and related utilities) starts speaking. The "here's the thing" quote is around 28:40.

[–] BatmanAoD 2 points 2 months ago

The goal is rather to not need to think as hard...

Or, if one prefers, having more flexibility to choose how and where to allocate mental energy, rather than letting the language force you to spend some amount on the "bookkeeping" necessary to avoid various footguns.

[–] BatmanAoD 2 points 2 months ago

Yeah, I mean, I tried to be explicit that I wasn't recommending unity builds. I'm just pointing out that OP, while misinformed and misguided in various ways, isn't actually wrong about header files being one source of slowness for C++.

[–] BatmanAoD 7 points 2 months ago

You don't need to do any of those things with Go or Rust. Interfaces/traits provide the capability for dynamic dispatch.

[–] BatmanAoD 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Slow compared to just chucking everything into a single source file, actually: https://github.com/j-jorge/unity-build

That's only true for clean builds and even then isn't universally true, and of course there are other reasons not to do unity builds. But the existence of the technique, and the fact that historically it has sped up build times enough for various projects to adopt it, does show that the C++ model, with headers and separate compilation units, has some inherent inefficiency.

[–] BatmanAoD 11 points 2 months ago

These are extremely superficial observations. You should learn more about each of these languages before dismissing them; Go is especially easy to learn.

(I quite dislike Go, actually, but "it has no classes" is nowhere near a valid reason not to learn a language.)

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