this post was submitted on 22 Jan 2024
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“We developed a deep neural network that maps the phase and amplitude of WiFi signals to UV coordinates within 24 human regions. The results of the study reveal that our model can estimate the dense pose of multiple subjects, with comparable performance to image-based approaches, by utilizing WiFi signals as the only input.”

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[–] [email protected] 113 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Absolutely ludicrous to paint this development as anything but the wet dream of both a burglar and a police state.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Also VR nerds. Current tracking is either based on the headset, so you can't move your arms unless the headset can see them, or your arms have to be seen by lighthouses, or you rely purely on gyroscope and accelerometers for tracking, which tend to drift. So either you have blind spots, have to deal with occlusion, or will slowly drift and have to recalibrate periodically. Wifi-based tracking seems like a neat idea tbh.

Edit: considering wifi is just photons that aren't wiggling fast enough for us to see, I'd be surprised if the government doesn't already have this technology behind closed doors.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago

For VR I don’t see why we wouldn’t use a variety of other technologies before we ever use WiFi. The main issue with the WiFi thing is going to be polling rates and interference (which limits polling rates). They’re also using a neural net here which requires both processing power and time so there’s latency far beyond VR uses. That’s without talking about tracking that would be needed for higher spatial resolution which this also doesn’t have currently. So it’s not impossible to use this, just not currently practical or even close.

The real solve to that stuff is just an improvement on existing tech or maybe Lidar. With the progress that has been made on the Quest with hand tracking, I’d bet their next goal is body and face tracking so you’ll see this soon.

As for the government having this, I doubt they really need to have it this specific to track poses or body parts. If you have a cell phone on you, they likely know exactly where you’re at in a room. If you don’t, I’m betting they have access to other important data. Motion detection, number of people, room shape and some contents, interference sources.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Home automation nerds would also cream their pants if they could get their hands on this. Imagine you could use your existing wifi router to detect presence in your home. Say goodbye to shitty IR sensors that forget about your existence within 3 seconds, no more finicky radar modules that are either too sensitive or not nearly sensitive enough.

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[–] [email protected] 81 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I mean you can look through my walls if you want, but don't come crying to me if you don't like what you see.

(I'm painting fantasy miniatures. They're for a friend.)

[–] [email protected] 68 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Same, but the fantasy miniatures are sex toys and the paint is my butt.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 10 months ago

A good hobby is a wonderful thing, indeed!

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[–] [email protected] 68 points 10 months ago (2 children)

You know what else let's you see through walls? Windows. (Suck it, Linux users!)

[–] [email protected] 15 points 10 months ago

In more than one sense, yes.

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[–] [email protected] 54 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Lead paint coming back into fashion.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 10 months ago

I lick that 👍

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago

paint myself in lead paint to become invisible. got it. /s

[–] [email protected] 37 points 10 months ago

"we threw a deep neural network at the wall to see if it sticks"

[–] [email protected] 35 points 10 months ago

Time to plaster your outer walls with fine wire mesh.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Lets hope the government is transparent about its use of this technology.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 10 months ago

All the information you want to know is available at: REDACTED

[–] [email protected] 17 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Article is from a year ago. Government tends to be ahead of the curve. As an uninformed guess, they have been using it in high value situations for 4+ years.

(Dear FBI, the above is a guess based on public information. I don't know shit.)

[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Government tends to be ahead of the curve.

I dunno what world you're living in, but I live in a world where police still do nearly all their work with pencil and paper and if you want to talk to a police officer, no you can't talk to them on the phone or send an email. You'll have to have a meeting face to face.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 10 months ago

Sorry, I don't mean the police.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago

Actually, police do tend to be reasonably ahead when technology is invasive. I've heard many stories about them seeing through walls with other technology. They also tend to like face-tracking, which is pretty advanced. They just are really far behind on technology that could be used to hold them accountable.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago

Israel has been using a similar system since at least 2022:

https://petapixel.com/2022/06/29/the-xaver-1000-sees-through-walls-and-is-made-for-the-israeli-army/

It's pretty likely that they have shared this system with their closest allies, similar to how the Trophy missile defense system found its way onto German and American tanks.

By the way, those throwable cameras mentioned at the end of the article have been available to the IDF since 2005.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Which leads to the obvious question: how long has the military been able to do this?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 10 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 14 points 10 months ago (5 children)

Here's the summary for the wikipedia article you mentioned in your comment:

TEMPEST is a U. S. National Security Agency specification and a NATO certification referring to spying on information systems through leaking emanations, including unintentional radio or electrical signals, sounds, and vibrations. TEMPEST covers both methods to spy upon others and how to shield equipment against such spying. The protection efforts are also known as emission security (EMSEC), which is a subset of communications security (COMSEC).

^to^ ^opt^ ^out^^,^ ^pm^ ^me^ ^'optout'.^ ^article^ ^|^ ^about^

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 10 months ago (6 children)

Wasn't this the plot point of The Dark Knight?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago


We only have to enter his name to be safe.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Umm, article from Jan 19, 2023. I remember seeing it then. Is there anything new on this?

The paper: [Submitted on 31 Dec 2022] - I'm not sure if it's out of prepublication yet.
DensePose From WiFi - https://arxiv.org/abs/2301.00250

Here's another tidbit from July 2, 2023 DensePose from WiFi - See through the walls. - https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/densepose-from-wifi-see-through-walls-alejandro-fern%C3%A1ndez

And another from July 25, 2023 Revolutionary Applications of DensePose From WiFi: Enhancing Corporate Security and Empowering Military Tactical Teams - https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/revolutionary-applications-densepose-from-wifi-enhancing-zack-hamm

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Here's a video summary of the paper I thought did a good job too from two minute papers.

https://youtu.be/kBFMsY5ZP0o

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 10 months ago (1 children)

If I didn't have a reason for why Ethernet is superior, I have one now!

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

... that you CANT see through walls? Seems like a downgrade to me...

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Duh? I don't think anyone with the right field of study thought this wasn't possible. It just doesn't have good use cases.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago (3 children)

I'm an EE, and I have serious doubt about this actually working nearly as good as they are putting it. This sort of stuff is hard, even with purpose built radar systems. I'm working with angle estimation in Multipath environments, and that shit fucks your signals up. This may work it you have extremely precisely characterised the target room and walls, and a ton of stuff around it, and then don't change anything but the motion of the people. But that's not practical.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I am going to repeat myself forever it seems. We got it wrong when we decided that you only have privacy when someone can't physically see what you are up to. Nothing else is treated this way. You are not allowed to drive as fast as your car can physically move. You are not allowed to go into anything locked as long as you are able to pick it. You are not allowed to steal whatever you want as long as no one tackles you for it. And yet somehow some way it became understood that merely because someone can get a photo of you they have the legal right to do so.

As if access to better technology means you should follow less moral rules vs the opposite. Someone with a junk camera of the 80s can do far less perving compared to the new cameras+drones out there.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (8 children)

it became understood that merely because someone can get a photo of you they have the legal right to do so.

What jurisdiction is this true? There are certainly times that there is an expectation of privacy and getting a photo of you would be illegal. Easy example: and owner of a store can't photo you in the dressing room, the even tho they could put a camera in there. It's the same thing here, there is an expectation of privacy in your home (or for many enclosed and private spaces), so this kind of "picture" would likely already be a violation.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Henceforth, the building code shall make mandatory that every room be perfectly grounded Faraday cages (/s).

Still, imagine lethal drones integrated with that technology (of course, they already have infrared, maybe even some adequate wavelength of X-rays).

Nevertheless, pretty cool to see how far we can take preexisting technology with the help of some deep learning layers.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Here's what they're putting in the goggles that Infantrymen wear now.

I don't care to guess what the drones are packing.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 10 months ago

Doesn't this mean the matrix film was right with their visualization (regardless of orientation)?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 10 months ago (3 children)
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[–] [email protected] 12 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Wait, I thought this was a crackpot conspiracy thing?

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago (3 children)

This article is a year old. Do we have posting standards in here?

[–] [email protected] 18 points 10 months ago

The tech is even far older than the article. I remember seeing this being demo'd at least a decade ago. Though, it looks like the fidelity has improved significantly from the early proof-of-concept videos that were floating around for a while.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago

Years ago there was a journal on gait recognition through home WiFi.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago

No one else getting batman : the dark knight vibes ?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

Y’all, just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.

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