this post was submitted on 05 Jan 2024
171 points (96.2% liked)

Today I Learned

17430 readers
3 users here now

What did you learn today? Share it with us!

We learn something new every day. This is a community dedicated to informing each other and helping to spread knowledge.

The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:

Rules (interactive)


Rule 1- All posts must begin with TIL. Linking to a source of info is optional, but highly recommended as it helps to spark discussion.

** Posts must be about an actual fact that you have learned, but it doesn't matter if you learned it today. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.**



Rule 2- Your post subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.

Your post subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.



Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.

Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.



Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.

That's it.



Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.

Posts and comments which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.



Rule 6- Regarding non-TIL posts.

Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-TIL posts using the [META] tag on your post title.



Rule 7- You can't harass or disturb other members.

If you vocally harass or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.

For further explanation, clarification and feedback about this rule, you may follow this link.



Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.



Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.

Let everyone have their own content.



Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.

Unless included in our Whitelist for Bots, your bot will not be allowed to participate in this community. To have your bot whitelisted, please contact the moderators for a short review.



Partnered Communities

You can view our partnered communities list by following this link. To partner with our community and be included, you are free to message the moderators or comment on a pinned post.

Community Moderation

For inquiry on becoming a moderator of this community, you may comment on the pinned post of the time, or simply shoot a message to the current moderators.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
all 36 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 63 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (4 children)

It's a nice thought experiment, but absolutely pointless.
Any warning about an unknown-to-us danger that is even just 500 years old or from a different culture is being treated like a superstition by us.

A good example of this would be the Yei River in South Sudan (and other areas along the equator) where the local tribes traditionally didn't settle near the river because the river spirits didn't allow it and brought misfortune and sickness to those who didn't respect them.
Modern settlers disregarded that because it's clearly unscientific, and rivers are great for trade and transportation.
And then the people living near the rivers started going blind, their children suffered from constant seizures and stunted development, and we still don't have a cure.

[–] [email protected] 38 points 10 months ago

Don't you actually make a very good point for this effort?

The problem with the superstitious warning was exactly that it was aimed only at the people of the time. It had no way to preserve it's warning beyond cultural and intellectual changes. Same as the radioactive symbol having too little inherent deterrent in its design so it caused radiation incidents by people who did not know what it means so we designed a new one that's specifically meant to be intuitively "dangerous" to people without any prior knowledge.

So in a similar way, we need to have a way to create warnings about nuclear waste - or a river - that are not limited by the current generation and the way they understand signs and meanings.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 10 months ago

Still worth the effort to try imo.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago

Thats just proof that we have designed systems to pass this knowledge down through time and cultures, and can improve on it to be more resiliant to shifts in culture and time going forward.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

Comparing modern civilization to tribes doesn't make sense. We have computers, digital storage, steel, and many other things that will let us preserve and share knowledge in a way humans throughout history probably couldn't even dream of.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 10 months ago (1 children)

YouTube video by Kyle Hill on how we currently store waste for anyone interested. [18:14] https://youtu.be/4aUODXeAM-k?si=

[–] [email protected] 14 points 10 months ago (1 children)

That's a fantastic video and more people need to watch it!

The biggest take away that people who don't feel like watching should know is that 99% of all nuclear waste actually decays to a completely inert state in 31 years or less. Plus, the amount of nuclear fuel used in every nuclear plant in the entire world since the beginning is a tiny, tiny amount and only about 1% of that will be potentially dangerous longer than 31 years. The 1% of spent fuel that is dangerous long-term could easily be stored in probably just one single deep storage facility where it's stored safely kilometers under the Earth's crust in a geologically stable region forever.

Storage of nuclear waste is a solved problem. The only thing holding the experts back from doing the correct thing with nuclear waste is public perception and unfounded laws forbidding it because of propaganda and scare tactics. There has NEVER been a single incident relating to improper storage of nuclear materials. But there have been loads and loads of incidents involving improper storage of oil, gas, and coal materials.

Nuclear is so, so, SO much safer and cleaner than oil, gas, and coal.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

NIMBYs and coal ash spills... Chernobyl is what caused a ton of this propaganda...

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

Probably a fair bit of pro-oil lobbying as well to get the hippies to protest nuclear for the environment instead of the oil industry.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago

The terme d'art for this field of study, in case you want to research more, is "Nuclear Semiotics," and the bulk of the study I've seen about it was undertaken by the WIPP. I personally think it's amazing.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

The idea here are very interesting to read, but I think I'm leaning most favorably towards the last group's idea to bury it with as little marking as possible. The plans modeled on Stonehenge seem odd to me. Stonehenge is famously a monument whose origin and purpose was a mystery, and that mystery enticed people from all over the world to travel to the site and excavate it. It seems more like a good reference for a method that would not work. How many people would have toyed around at Stonehenge if the monument weren't there?

At the same time, we have events with contaminated materials being used in construction within a matter of months or years, so it's not like these are abstract problems. E.g., look at the 1983 Ciudad Juárez Cobalt 60 incident. We have the technology to identify contaminated materials, but we'd only use them if we have reason to believe we should. It's probably fair to assume the same of future societies, so it makes sense to want to make sure they have reason to believe they should test the area.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Man... Article from 2018 and they still thought we'd eventually have another ice age.. how the times change fast...

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

After the nuclear winter we’ll have an ice age.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

In 100,000 years, you very well might be in an ice age period. The global warming trend only took 50 years to appear.