this post was submitted on 21 Dec 2023
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[–] [email protected] 48 points 10 months ago (5 children)

The article makes a lot of mistakes, because I don't think that the author actually cares about textiles at all.

Cotton is not comparable to wool at all. Full stop. If you wear wool for technical reasons--like, because you want to stay warm--then you need to know that cotton will kill you, as will all cellulose fibers that aren't treated to be hydrophobic. Petroleum-based fibers like polyesters, nylons, etc., do not wet the same way that cotton does, but also don't keep you warm in the same way that wool will. Wool is the gold-standard for cold-weather outdoor apparel.

Tencel--which is a type of rayon--is considerably weaker than cotton when it gets wet. The process for making rayon is usually--but not always--a very polluting open-loop system. There are closed-loop systems, but they weren't in common use as of 2010.

Leather is irreplaceable as a protective material. Synthetic leathers lack the abrasion resistance and/or heat resistance of leather. Compare a pair of high-quality leather boots to the highest quality non-leather boots; leather will last decades longer. So you can't compare on a per unit basis; you need to compare them based on practical lifetime costs. In regards to certain protective apparel--such as motorcycle gear--textile jackets simply do not provide the same level of repeatable protection as leather. If you ride your bike on a track, you will be required to wear leather.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago

My understanding was that there are three types of rayon. Or have I been had by Big Cellulose?

  • Viscose is the one that gets weaker when wet, and uses aggressive chemicals
  • Modal gets stronger when wet, but also aggressive chemicals
  • Tencel (brand name for lyocell) specifically refers to that closed loop process with less harsh solvents, and also gets stronger when wet

If something just says "Rayon" you can probably assume it's viscose. Tencel sellers want you to know it's Tencel.

Regardless, none of the above are good for warmth, so bad replacement for wool no matter which process they use. I do love my Tencel bedsheets though.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago

The fake leather thing is real. It's why you can reuse a leather jacket after a motorcycle crash, but not a textile one. Leather also slides better, and sliding gently to a stop after a motorcycle crash can really save you.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

In what way is cotton killing people?

[–] [email protected] 25 points 10 months ago (10 children)

Wet cotton will freeze someone to death, wet wool will still keep you warm.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago (5 children)

Can't you / shouldn't you be wearing a rain coat or outer shell if you think you might get wet?

I get there are some situations where its impossible to keep underlayers dry, like if your on a boat or Backcountry camping, but for the majority of people and situations some layers of cotton or synthetic under a shell should be fine.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 10 months ago

perspiration. Sweat will sap heat just as fast as water if you're wearing cotton

[–] [email protected] 12 points 10 months ago (5 children)

If you over exert yourself and sweat cotton underlayers are useless.

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 10 months ago (21 children)

Can someone please tell me exactly what I'm supposed to be wearing?

[–] [email protected] 33 points 10 months ago

Adopt actual sheep, and just strap them to your body for warmth.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 10 months ago (1 children)

So generally the entire clothes industry is slavery ridden and completely fucked. Trying to follow the supply chain is basically impossible.

I would suggest essentially as little as possible for as long as possible, plant fibres probs good. synthetic not really that bad given the whole state of everything it's small fries in terms of plastic waste.

get local tailors to make clothing if you can afford it

[–] [email protected] 20 points 10 months ago (9 children)

get local tailors to make clothing if you can afford it

Anyone who can afford that is not doing it to be sustainable and humanitarian and I think you know that.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Wtf are you talking about? I'm not super rich, but i get some things done with a local tailor and one of the biggest reasons is to support local business and avoid overseas slave labour

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Simplest answer: cotton. It’s cheap and good enough for most uses. High-grade cotton like Supima is extra comfortable and not much more expensive.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 10 months ago

It's not very good for the use of keeping you warm. Unlike wool.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Unfortunately extremely high water usage to grow cotton, and a lot of it is grown in places that need that water for other things (RIP Aral Sea).

Based on the article we should use flax aka linen, which I suppose makes sense. Linen was once a finery due to the excessive effort needed to produce it, but now we have machinery.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago

Linen actually doesn't take to large scale mechanization very well. It causes the fibers to break into shorter pieces more often, which makes the final fabric rougher and less sturdy. Machine-woven linen also tends to be more loosely woven, which is again less sturdy.

Machines certainly helped some amount, but cotton got a way bigger boost from industrialization. That's why cotton is so much cheaper than linen today, especially high quality linen.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago

Nothing! Go forth and let it all be free and flap around!

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Can't say anything about buying new clothes, but as the budget's tightened in my household I've been leaning how to mend my clothes. The ones I normally would've thrown away due to armpit/toe/crotch holes can be fixed somewhat easily.

One catch is that I use a sewing machine my MIL gave me - so there was some cost somewhere. But I see machines on craigslist going for sub 60 fairly often. The second catch is that I was lucky enough to develop an interest (and spend my free time) learning about how to mend clothes. If people lack free time/interest to learn how to do it, then they end up paying the new-clothes tax.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

My wife does the sewing machine work here. I'm inept. But I'm okay with a needle and thread, so I've done plenty of my own (ugly) repairs. Some stuff it doesn't matter on anyway, like fixing the toe in a sock. Easy to do and saves money on socks.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

I've got a hole in my sock! Darn it!

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Reduce, reuse, recycle is the best bet. Most people in privileged areas own much more clothing than they need and dispose of it long before it's worn out. Used clothing, hand me downs. Recycled plastic fibres (wash in one of those bags that filter out micro plastic). Plant fibres. Hemp is a great alternative to wool.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I'm looking up hemp clothing now. It's just as expensive as the other option the other person gave me.

Purchasing used clothing, fine, but if your advice is to buy much more expensive clothing than I can afford, I guess I can't wear the cruelty-free stuff if I need something new. And I'm sure as hell not buying used underwear.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Based on the news today, human skin™️ apparently

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Did they really compare wool with leather as equally cruel to animals?

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Lotta misinformation in this thread trying to claim that wool doesnt keep you warm when it is wet, and I can say from first hand experience that it most certainly does keep you warm when completely soaked through. Sheep should be shorn humanely and it is possible to do, but corporations and capitalism have no incentive to do it. Here is an indepth article explaining the science behind how wool keeps you warm when wet. And Here is anothet article

[–] [email protected] 22 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Big plastic challenges big wool in the thunderdome. 2 enter but we all lose no matter what choice you make. Just go naked people or are you all part of the big clothes conspiracy?

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Sounds like something big synth would say

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I love how American journalists decide to demonise an industry by putting the word 'Big' in front of it.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Big media doesn't want you to know this big secret, the big truth is big stupid

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It is a pretty good article but I have some nitpicks:

They say both that you cannot decide in a vacuum and fast fashion uses synth materials to make disposable clothing. I think given these two ideas, the carbon usage for one garment of wool vs one garment of nylon should include all the "waste" garments produced as well. Since, when you buy from a company that practices this, the impact is from the whole process, as they are keen to point out. That includes the sweatshop to landfill garments.

Personally I like not wearing a microplastics generator.

I am also curious about hemp clothing.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago

Big Wool. Silly

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