this post was submitted on 03 Dec 2023
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A mother and her 14-year-old daughter are advocating for better protections for victims after AI-generated nude images of the teen and other female classmates were circulated at a high school in New Jersey.

Meanwhile, on the other side of the country, officials are investigating an incident involving a teenage boy who allegedly used artificial intelligence to create and distribute similar images of other students – also teen girls - that attend a high school in suburban Seattle, Washington.

The disturbing cases have put a spotlight yet again on explicit AI-generated material that overwhelmingly harms women and children and is booming online at an unprecedented rate. According to an analysis by independent researcher Genevieve Oh that was shared with The Associated Press, more than 143,000 new deepfake videos were posted online this year, which surpasses every other year combined.

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[–] [email protected] 112 points 11 months ago (4 children)

I don't know what a reasonable"protection" looks like here: the only thing foresee is 14 year old boys getting felonies, but no one being protected.

[–] [email protected] 57 points 11 months ago (6 children)

Right, there are plenty of reactive measures available but the only proactive measures are either restricting availability of the source photos used or restricting use of the deep fake tools used. Everything beyond that is trying to put the genie back in the bottle.

[–] [email protected] 52 points 11 months ago (1 children)

At some point, communities and social circles need to be able to moderate themselves.

Disseminating nudes of peers should be grounds for ostracizing, but it really depends on the quality of people around you.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago (7 children)

That doesn't work. It's nothing but an inconvenience to not talk to your neighbors or those around you. They'd just get even worse and make even worse friends online.

Ostracization doesn't work. Ever. Period. If they're bad enough, banishment works. Ostracization is just literally ignoring the problem.

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[–] MagicShel 31 points 11 months ago

It's not possible to restrict deep fake technology at this point. It's out there. Accessible to everyone who wants it and has a computer at home.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Even if you don't want to consider it CSAM, it is, at the very least, sexual harassment. The kids making and circulating these pictures and videos should be facing consequences. And the fear of consequences does offer some degree of protection at least.

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[–] [email protected] 91 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Methinks this problem is gonna get out of fucking hand. Welcome to the future, it sucks.

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[–] [email protected] 57 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (14 children)

Maybe it is just me, but its why I think this is a bigger issue than just Hollywood.

The rights to famous people's "images" are bought and sold all the time.

I would argue that the entire concept should be made illegal. Others can only use your image with your explicit permission and your image cannot be "owned" by anyone but yourself.

The fact that making a law like this isn't a priority means this will get worse because we already have a society and laws that don't respect our rights to control of our own image.

A law like this would also remove all the questions about youth and sex and instead make it a case of misuse of someone else's image. In this case it could even be considered defamation for altering the image to make it seem like it was real. They defamed her by making it seem like she took nude photos of herself to spread around.

[–] [email protected] 53 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (14 children)

There are genuine reasons not to give people sole authority over their image though. "Oh that's a picture of me genuinely doing something bad, you can't publish that!"

Like, we still need to be able to have a public conversation about (especially political) public figures and their actions as photographed

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[–] [email protected] 42 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (51 children)

Maybe I'm just naive of how many protections we're actually granted but shouldn't this already fall under CP/CSAM legislation in nearly every country?

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[–] [email protected] 42 points 11 months ago (6 children)

Honest opinion:

We should normalize nudity.

That's the only healthy relationship that we can have with our bodies in the long term.

[–] [email protected] 67 points 11 months ago (2 children)

There's a pretty big fucking difference between normalizing nudity and people putting the faces of 14 year olds in porn video through deepfakes.

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[–] [email protected] 58 points 11 months ago (4 children)

This isn't even the problem going on, though? Sure, normalize nudity, whatever, that doesn't fix deep faked porn of literal children.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 11 months ago (4 children)
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[–] [email protected] 45 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Having spent many years in both the US and multiple European countries, I can confidently say that the US has the weirdest, most unnatural, and most unhealthy relationship with nudity.

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

There might be an upside to all this, though maybe not for these girls: with enough of this people will eventually just stop believing any nude pictures "leaked" are real, which will be a great thing for people who had real nude pictures leaked - which, once on the Internet, are pretty hard to stop spreading - because other people will just presume they're deepfakes.

Mind you, it would be a lot better if people in general culturally evolved beyond being preachy monkeys who pass judgment on others because they've been photographed in their birthday-suit, but that's clearly asking too much so I guess simply people assuming all such things are deepfakes until proven otherwise is at least better than the status quo.

[–] [email protected] 46 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Photoshop is a 40yo tool and people still believe almost every picture.

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 11 months ago (4 children)

In previous generations the kid making fake porn of their classmates was not a well liked kid. Is that reversed now? On the basis of quality of tech?

[–] [email protected] 21 points 11 months ago

That kid that doodles is creepy. But deep fakes probably feel a lot closer to actual nudes.

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 11 months ago (10 children)

So as a grown woman, I'm not getting why teenage girls should give any of this oxygen. Some idiot takes my head and pastes it on porn. So what? That's more embarrassing for HIM than for me. How pathetic that these incels are so unable to have a relationship with an actual girl. Whatever, dudes. Any boy who does this should be laughed off campus. Girls need to take their power and use it collectively to shame and humiliate these guys.

I do think anyone who spreads these images should be prosecuted as a child pornographer and listed as a sex offender. Make an example out of a few and the rest won't dare to share it outside their sick incels club.

[–] [email protected] 65 points 11 months ago (3 children)

That's fine and well. Except they are videos, and it is very difficult to prove they aren't you. And the internet is forever.

This isn't like high school when you went to high school.

Agreed on your last paragraph.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Then nude leak scandals will quickly become a thing of the past, because now every nude video/picture can be assumed to be AI generated and are always fake until proven otherwise.

That's the silver lining of this entire ordeal.

Again, this is a content distribution problem more than an AI problem, the liability should be on those who willingly host these deepfake content than on AI image generators.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago (6 children)

That would be great in a perfect world, but unfortunately public perception is significantly more important than facts when it comes to stuff like this. People accused of heinous crimes can and do lose friends, their jobs, and have their life ruined even if they prove that they are completely innocent

Plus, something I've already seen happen is someone says a nude is fake and are then told they have to prove that it's fake to get people to believe them... which is very hard without sharing an actual nude that has something unique about their body

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 11 months ago (4 children)

So they do it and share it around to slut shame you

You try to find a job and they find porn of you

It’s a lot worse than you’re making it out to be when it’s not you that gets to make that decision

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I don't think the problem is that the girls and ashamed of the fake porn. The problem is not even that other kids will believe it. The problem is that kids will use it to mock, bully and ostracise them. It's not being shared as 'OMG, you're so hot I made fake sex tape with you, marry me". It's being shared as "you're a slut that does porn, everyone thinks you're a bitch, go kill yourself'.

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 11 months ago (3 children)

You may not be representative of teenage girls.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 11 months ago (17 children)

I wonder what the prevalence of this kind of behavior is like in countries that aren’t so weird about sex.

[–] [email protected] 40 points 11 months ago (2 children)

This has nothing to do with "being weird about sex" and everything to do with men treating women poorly.

You can expect this to be worse in nations where women don't have as many rights and/or where misogyny is accepted as part of life.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago

Sounds plausible, we just abolished Roe, so…. It’s not looking great for the future of this issue in the US.

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[–] Lmaydev 15 points 11 months ago (38 children)

Kids don't know or understand the damage this can cause someone.

They see it as a joke most of the time.

It needs to be made illegal and the kids properly educated about why.

It's easy as an adult to condemn these children but we have a lot more life experience.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 11 months ago (2 children)

What's the fundamental difference between a deep fake and a good Photoshop and why do we need more laws to regulate that?

[–] UlrikHD 24 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Lower skill ceiling. One option can be done by pretty much anyone at a high volume output, the other would require a lot training and are not available for your average basement dweller.

Good luck trying to regulate it though, Pandora's box is opened and you won't be able to stop the FOSS community from working on the tech.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 11 months ago (22 children)

The problem is how to actually prevent this. What could one do? Make AI systems illegal? Make graphics tools illegal? Make the Internet illegal? Make computers illegal?

[–] [email protected] 21 points 11 months ago (9 children)

Make "producing real or simulated CSAM illegal?"

[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Isn't it already? Has it provided any sort of protection? Many things in this world are illegal, and nobody cares.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 11 months ago (2 children)

President Joe Biden signed an executive order in October that, among other things, called for barring the use of generative AI to produce child sexual abuse material or non-consensual “intimate imagery of real individuals.” The order also directs the federal government to issue guidance to label and watermark AI-generated content to help differentiate between authentic and material made by software.

Step in the right direction, I guess.

How is the government going to be able to differentiate authentic images/videos from AI generated ones? Some of the AI images are getting super realistic, to the point where it's difficult for human eyes to tell the difference.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I studied Computer Science so I know that the only way to teach an AI agent to stop drawing naked girls is to... give it pictures of naked girls so it can learn what not to draw :(

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago (2 children)

reading this, I don't really know what is supposed to be protected here to be deemed possible of protections in the first place.

closest reasonable one is the girl's "identity", so it could be fraud. but it's not used to fool people. more likely, those getting the pics already consented this is ai generated.

so might be defamation?

the image generation tech is already easily accessible so the girl's picture being easily accessible might be the weakest link?

[–] [email protected] 23 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Not a lawyer, but I'll take a stab. Pretty sure it's illegal to create sexual images of children, photos or not. It's also illegal to use someone's likeness without permission, but admittedly this depends on the state in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_rights

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