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submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 43 points 1 year ago (1 children)

de-volition 100.0000% of Communism has been built. There are no more evil child-murdering billionaires and shit-eating grins too. You have single-handedly raised the Commune of '02 from the oceanic trench where it has been resting, covered in ghosts and seaweed!

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago

de-shivers [Legendary:Success] As you look upward, into the rolling mists around Revachol, a vision comes to you. Strikingly clear, even in the alcohol haze of your mind. The Pale will be driven back by revolutionary fervor. It is the terrible air of oppression itself; it will not withstand the might of a liberated working class. The Pale will dissipate like fog in the morning sun. The isolas will be joined and Communism will be built.

dubois-depressed Will anyone be shot in the head?

de-encyclopedia [Easy:Success] Someone is always shot in the head

de-shivers A great many brave communards will be shot in the head. But, just this once, that will not be enough. Communism will win. The Revolution will sweep this world and into the beyond. The stars are next, detective. You might even live to see it.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

socialism worked, we can only hope

[+] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (5 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Absent powerful capitalist and colonial forces seeking to re-establish themselves, a late-stage Marxist-Leninist society would look approximately horizontal.

The only real hierarchical structures worth preserving are ones that follow from natural deviations in human capabilities and desires. Basically just deferring authority to subject matter experts and not letting 8 year olds determine they want candy for every meal.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Some Marxists argue that decentralized production leads to exchange which leads to commodity production.

This is a bad argument because there's lots of ways to move things that aren't exchange (Graeber lists a few in Dawn of Everything), but lots of Marxists make it.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

and then marxists will have a refutation for that refutation, and it goes on and on and on

IRL frameworks will always have more viability than the theoretical, even if the theoretical is right its implementation must occur in order to actually approve it

needless to say i hope world socialism will have lots of variety in order to create the most effective economic system while being owned by the workers and not held back by previously necessary frameworks

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Graeber is an anarchist and is not a legitimate source. He literally believes people are not conscious.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hey, if you hate me so much you find my day old comments and troll post on them you should probably just block me

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I don't hate you, though. I'm just replying 'cause it's in my Inbox.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

He literally believes people are not conscious.

what? when did graeber say this? legitimately interested.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

It was in an interview, but I can't find it.

Anyway:

https://nonsite.org/back-to-work-review-of-david-graebers-bullshit-jobs/

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Uh, no, there would stilll be leadership and administration.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That is the end goal of our movement though, the economic stage of "communism" will entail a horizontal structure of the society. Just because it's unimaginable now, doesn't mean it won't be after god knows how many years of socialism.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

It is not.

It's not the end goal. The end goal is to free our creative labor for other things. There will still be administration though.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I mean, communism is indistinguishable from what the anarchists want (stateless, classless society), the difference is that anarchists want to abolish the state right away, while communists think it will wither away with time, and that attempts to do away with it too soon will just fail

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

what tendency am I if i don't think it'll just wither away, but abolishing states while capitalist ones are still around (certainly not when they're hegemonic) isn't viable?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't think that exists but I also don't think it matters. Communist theorists tend to not talk that much about the actual communist stage of society because it's too far into the future to actually be rigorously described. Socialism is already possible given the current conditions, and it's the current political goal, so they focus on that instead of trying to guess how communism is going to work. The state going away comes from the analysis that states are tools of class suppression and that if there are no classes, the state loses its reason to exist.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The state going away comes from the analysis that states are tools of class suppression and that if there are no classes, the state loses its reason to exist.

There are lots of obsolete institutions that persist through their obsolescence. Institutions are self perpetuating. The state will have to be destroyed.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

what i think they mean is that they will be taken apart naturally after we have effectively mobilized the working class

a politically educated working class is the best way to have a strong pace to communism

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

I think you agree with the private thoughts of most communists in leadership in AES states.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Uh, no, communism is not anarchy. Anarchists want no leaders and horizontality. Communists still want administration. This is how many MLs throughout history have understood it.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, anarchists claim to be against unjust hierarchies, not hierarchies in general. A society with no leaders whatsoever is impossible.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's not what other anarchists tell me. It would be nice if anarchists agreed on something.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

other anarchists

I am not an anarchist, I'm a ML. But this is something that was stated by Bakunin on "What is Authority?" and then repeated/popularized by Chomsky. I never heard of anyone claiming to be against authority in general unless it was someone really wacky like Bataille or Sade. If we're going to critize other leftists, it should be based on what they actually believe and what their representative theorists have to say on the matter. We can't really base things like this on what random people believe, especially since a lot of people who claim to be Marxists on the internet are equally clueless about Marxism.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Doesn't matter. There's no one template for anarchism or anarchists, hence, they can believe anything.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean, you had a very different position on the matter 20 hours ago but I'll just disengage since it seems like you just want to have the last say in this.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I don't. You misunderstand me.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago

this anarchist crap

fidel-wut

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

oh snap

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

You got me.