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This isn’t about supporting Europe or NATO or Ukraine. This is about not capitulating to a hostile dictatorship that likes to invade other people‘s territories without provocation. 
Exactly. How much of your country and resources will you be willing to give up when Russia and their useful idiot comes knocking? If the answer isn't everything, you should probably help Ukraine make a stand now before the "peace deal" results in loosened sanctions and before Russia starts to re-arm.
It's always the same thing, a state that used to work "together" with russia no longer want's to be a slave to russia and work with other countries.
Russia doesn't want that, so they attack.
It happened to Georgia before it happened to Ukraine.
Trump just proved that he isn't even capable of running a meeting, much less a country.
Even if we ignore everything else about Trump, scandals, history, etc. that meeting alone showed he is incapable of meeting the requirements of the office.
symptoms of alzheimer should be showing up soon like his father.
Wdym "soon". They've been visible for a while now.
This is exactly what my great grandma went through
This is what REAL strength looks like...not the pseudo-macho bullshit that Trump and Vance just tried to pull.
More than weakness, it stinks of incompetence. Vance was obviously there to start a fight to make Zelensky look bad so they could leverage him.
Except they were so obvious about it that he came off as the winner. They cannot even set a proper trap (thank God).
I've been trying to think what the Trump / Vance plan was. Like you said, it was obvious that Vance was there to pick a fight. But I couldn't tell if they were legitimately trying to blow up diplomatic relations like they did, or if they thought they were going to get the upper hand in exploring Ukraine for their natural resources.
Either way, it was disgusting to watch.
But I couldn't tell if they were legitimately trying to blow up diplomatic relations like they did, or if they thought they were going to get the upper hand in exploring Ukraine for their natural resources.
It was a show for Putin. A test of loyalty.
Just look at how they spoke of Putin as if he was reasonable and had reason to be upset with Zelenskyy. Meanwhile, they treated Zelenskyy as if he was the problem.
Trump still denies calling Zelenskyy a dictator... From a few days prior.
Do these imbeciles realize that they are making America look the weakest it’s ever been? No they don’t because they’re a bunch of dumbasses.
Weak, untrustworthy, and difficult to even be allies with.
There are very few, if any, world leaders who acted as unhinged as dumb and dumber did.
In a way jt is fascinating to watch the US goverment dismantle their empire on fast forward. With this single "conversation" they undermined every security deal they had anywhere in the world.
Wonder if some hardliners from CIA or such will decide to sort out this threat to their power, or will they just accept going down.
With this single "conversation" they undermined every security deal they had anywhere in the world.
I disagree. If it was a single conversation the world would be shocked but they could still cover it up. Politicians say dumb shit and walk it back all the time.
It's the fact that his first term was already such a blundering mess in terms of diplomacy, combined with the fact that he somehow got re-elected, the accelerating bullshit ever since and now finally this mess. If they hadn't been chipping away at any international goodwill so thoroughly, the response would be closer to "I can't believe a US president would say that" rather than "the US as a whole is no longer reliable".
Deep state is having a nap I guess.
I don't mean that facetiously, honestly surprised the CIA is just chill with everything.
They don’t have a problem with fascists. They don’t have a problem with idiots. They have a problem with leftists who want to make the world a better place.
I get that their main goal is keeping the proles down, but you'd think there'd be some protection of american hegemony and soft power, it has made a small group of people a lot of money and given them outsized influence of the world.
Wonder if some hardliners from CIA or such will decide to sort out this threat to their power, or will they just accept going down.
They kind of have to do something, if they don't they'll probably end up being "doged" for lack of accomplishments.
Hungary's Orban stands alone with Trump, as Europe unites behind Ukraine.
🐱🐱🐱🐱
We should really form Europe 2, with every member except Hungary.
Today is hungary, but it could also easily have been France, Austria or Germany. We need to learn a new way to counteract to forign states Mischung in the EU. If we dont, we are condemned.
‘Merican here. Sorry EU. But you’re gonna have to take the lead here, I think. And I’m glad you are.
European here. Sorry America, but you're going to have to step up and remove your corrupt leaders I think. And I'll be happy when you do.
I'm getting a bit pissed off with this type of message.
I do hope that Trump is the galvanizing force that pushes the people of the EU (and perhaps others) towards Ukraine support, as well as everything else Trump and the right hate. The far right is gaining too much support, but if your average right leaning or moderate EU citizen sees just how bad it's working out for the US, it might chill that movement a bit. At least, I hope so.
I don't think the right-leaning EU citizens recognise this as a problem with the right. It's too easy to say this is "an America specific problem" and "We'd never vote in a dumbass such as Trump."
I honestly think this kind of learning will happen here absolutely not at all.
I do hope that Trump is the galvanizing force that pushes the people of the EU (and perhaps others) towards Ukraine support, as well as everything else Trump and the right hate
Why do you think that the EU and others haven't been supporting Ukraine? They have.
No matter how this shakes. The damage is done. No matter what happens going forward nobody can or should trust the US to be a reliable partner in any way. Not economically or militarily because we're psychotic. Nationally bipolar. You might get a stable trustworthy partner in one election only to get an insane wannabe dictator in 4 years time who flips the table and burns all the bridges. You can't trust us with anything on a longer timeline than 2-4 years. And that is the surest path to international irrelevancy.
This will be "The Moment" spoken about in history books where US Hegemony collapsed. Count on it. Because no matter what happens. This is the new paradigm. We cannot be trusted.
That's crazy. So americans are full on terrorists now? They should be put on a flight risk list so no one has to deal with them except themselves
That'll trap vulnerable people in the States, potentially to be lynched. Much as I would love to support a blanket, don't allow crazy out of crazytown, there's sane people trapped there that should be allowed to flee.
"Its a nation of tiny trumps, that would fuck their own mothers if it got a rich man's grin." I believe I read on reddit.
It certainly was a kick to the European diplomatic nuts and removed any doubt if reasonable negotiation is possible. Niet l now it's clear on what they're dealing with for the war, NATO and trade.
Wouldn't "mount support" instead of "throw" have been a better choice of words? Writing style aside, I hope Europe gets together and pushes the Ruzzians out of Ukraine.
I'm hoping Ukr gets an EU membership out of this at the minimum. They're going to be blocked from NATO by US and Turkeye
To "throw support behind" is a common expression. It implies vigour in a way that "mount support" does not, so I think it's a good word choice.
