this post was submitted on 22 Jan 2025
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No Stupid Questions

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You'd think a hegemony with a 100-years tradition of upkeeping democracy against major non-democratic players, would have some mechanism that would prevent itself from throwing down it's key ideology.

Is it really that the president is all that decides about the future of democracy itself? Is 53 out of 100 senate seats really enough to make country fall into authoritarian regime? Is the army really not constitutionally obliged to step in and save the day?

I'd never think that, of all places, American democracy would be the most volatile.

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 4 days ago (2 children)

It has impeachment. The list of reasons for impeachment are (quite possibly intentionally) vague. But it has to be done through Congress.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 3 days ago (1 children)

And when the nazi controls Congress you know how far that'll go.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Yeah, it's rather obviously flawed in light of the current situation, but that is the mechanism that exists in the constitution.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 days ago (1 children)

You mean for the guy who was already impeached twice... And still voted for to be president?

[–] [email protected] 16 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Well the mechanism for preventing criminals who shit all over the constitution from getting reelected is supposed to be people not voting for him. There's not really much a constitutional democracy can do about voters being fucking morons. Kind of an inherent flaw in the system.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 days ago (1 children)

How do you build a system that doesn’t depend on voters not being morons? Everything I can think of, up to and including full-on authoritarianism, has human shittiness as a glaring weak point. The founding fathers assumed that people would, for the most part, act in good faith, and it kept us going for a couple hundred years, but all that is starting to fall apart.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 days ago

I am not arguing in favor of authoritarianism or against democracy, to be clear. Just saying there is an inherent risk that if you give the common people power, the common people might do something dumb with it. I'm not aware of a system that removes that risk without other considerable downsides. There are other democratic governments that have fewer structural issues than the US, but none of them prevent the whole "sometimes, voters are very dumb" thing.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 3 days ago

We enter parliament in order to supply ourselves, in the arsenal of democracy, with its own weapons. If democracy is so stupid as to give us free tickets and salaries for this bear's work, that is its affair. We do not come as friends, nor even as neutrals. We come as enemies. As the wolf bursts into the flock, so we come.

Joseph Goebbels

[–] [email protected] 15 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Couldn't keep a:

34 count felon

Child rapist

Fraudster

Tax dodger

Draft dodger

Grifter

Deadbeat

Wife beater

Philanderer

Classified documents thief

Obstructionist

Out of office... so why would they be able to keep a Nazi out?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Tax dodger

and draft dodger lol

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago

Forgot that. Added.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 3 days ago

The Constitution assumes the people through the ballot box or through protest would clean up any issues like that

[–] [email protected] 23 points 4 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

The problem is he won the election.

The vote is the final check and balance.

49% of Voters are either sympatico or stupid.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 days ago (5 children)

And that's the problem with the US election system. In basically any other developed democracy, there are ways to call a new special election. The four years are often the max between elections, not the minimum.

If a new leader proves unpopular, you toss them out and install a new one.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 days ago (3 children)

The problem is also that the Republican party is a fascist party, so the other check, impeachment, is thoroughly useless.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago

Ironically, these are the times the electoral college was supposed to avoid. Also denounced political parties as corrupting. Still likely to have been coopted by now, but the design was to combat lack of education, lack of information, and/or propaganda.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The US government is not (and has never been) against fascism for ideological reasons. Fascism and American-style democracy go hand in hand quite well. Our government fought a war against fascists because they disrupted the global trade status quo and threatened US economic prosperity and that of our primary trade partners.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Technically even the time we did it only officially after the fascists declared war on us first. It was all lend lease, etc before that.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago

You're totally right, the US government and business elite were content to make money from both sides of the conflict right up until Dec 7, 1941 and the subsequent DoWs from Germany and Italy (once the US declared on Japan). They may have favored Britain and France in trade/indirect support somewhat before that, but that was more a result of historical diplomatic and economic ties, rather than any issue with the German political system.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 4 days ago (1 children)

We really only have the Second Amendment. I am now on a list.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 days ago (11 children)

Yeah, with every other cool person.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 4 days ago

I’d never think that, of all places, American democracy would be the most volatile

Ignore the political system and look at the economic system. The US is capitalist and as it turns out- capitalism is not mutually exclusive with fascism.

If a human being lives long enough, he will eventually develop cancer. It's simply a natural physical consequence of repeated cell division. Eventually there's some mutation that leads to a chain reaction. The cancer spreads enough and there's no going back. Capitalism, similarly, will always inevitably embrace fascism.

Marx got it wrong. He believed that the workers, realizing their position as class consciousness increases, would inevitably revolt against the power structure. The reality is more depressing.

Capitalism has cycles of crisis. Sometimes the economy is doing good which leaves the workers content. Sometimes the economy is doing bad. The problem is when the economy is doing bad coincides with some other set of crisis, the combination of events radicalizes the workers. This part Marx predicted. However he was mistaken about human nature.

Really, our problem started back in 2008. The global economy never fully recovered. Interest rates were kept low in a desperate attempt to increase spending to keep the boat from tipping. Then COVID pumped up inflation to historic levels- supply chain shortages wrecked chaos. After that, the Russian invasion of Ukraine pushed up inflation even higher. Prices go up but wages lag behind.

Workers, naturally, become more radicalized- as Marx predicted. The issue is Marx was too optimistic about human nature. Humans as a whole are fearful herd animals. They need a shepherd to point somewhere. And eventually, inevitably, some megalomaniac with a vision will take advantage of a vulnerable system and point somewhere. In the 1930s it was to the Jews and the communists. Today, it's the illegals and "wokeism".

All this to say that this shouldn't be surprising. Left wing voices have been warning about this for a long time.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 4 days ago

Hitler didn't take power democratically. Neither did Mussolini or Franco. They each found cracks in how liberal democracy worked in their respective countries. Those cracks were usually the places where the system was decidedly undemocratic, which in those three cases, was generally something where the old nobles still had some power and they lined up behind fascists to save them from leftists.

America never had nobles, but it does have plenty of cracks in its liberal democracy to be exploited by fascists.

So to answer your question simply, no, there are no instruments to fix this. Congress can potentially either reign Trump in with legislation, or even impeach him, but I don't expect either one to happen. If the GOP can be swept out of Congress in 2026, then we can maybe start to fix some things without resorting to extralegal methods. Even that is only a starting point.

I do know for sure that we can't go back to the old trajectory as if Trump was just an outlier.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Assuming America is a democracy is the first mistake. killing the native population, viewing non land owners, poc and many more as lessors. Let's not forget who wrote the constitution.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 days ago

America's vaunted "checks and balances" are, in the end, just smoke and mirrors to lie to the population and hide the fact that American institutions give way too much power to the president and there are no institutional controls to make the president behave.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 days ago

Second amendment

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 days ago (1 children)

a hegemony with a 100-years tradition of upkeeping democracy against major non-democratic players

Your proof of this is... what?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 days ago (1 children)

For real. US history is replete with supporting dictators, military coups, and so on.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago

This is the result of ever-expanding executive power.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago

This x1000.

Few things frustrate more than a fellow leftist who still refuses to arm themselves in today's climate. I truly believe that the world needs fewer guns, but read the room for fuck's sake. There are far too many people in the US that want our kind dead, simply because we exist. All they need is for their God Emperor to say the word.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago

Depends how you define "instruments". For example, there was a recent survey that we have something like 500 million, uh, instruments.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago

Normally, it would be the electoral system that would act as the check. But otherwise, it doesn't put any other limits based on political belief and affiliation (other than having allegiances to other political powers). If the majority wanted to elect someone who wishes to abolish the democratic election system, then that is what they will get.

That's possibly for the better. Being able to bar given political alignments or affiliation from office would either need to be so specific so as to be useless (a modern nazi typically has little directly to do with the original), or be broad enough that it'd be a dangerous thing, since it could be used in either direction.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 days ago (7 children)

It's funny that Germany has safeguards against nazis in power in it's constitution which was designed ~~by~~ in cooperation with the USA, France and GB, yet afaik all three don't have similar mechanics in their own constitutions because they never belived to have to deal with the next hitler themselfs.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 days ago

Those same safeguards that banned AfD years ago, thank god they exist!

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Lets take out the politics for a moment, and just look at railroads

This is what I call the "Old Railroad Theory":

The US build the railroad/subways so long ago, that most of it is now in decay and as far as I know, none of the US has any Platform Safety Barriers, and people could just fall on the tracks (see NYC)

In constrast, in China (PRC), because most subways are only recently built, they are much more modern, air-conditioned, and have Platform Safety Barriers, preventing any "fall on tracks" incidents. (I've seen first hand the subway in GuangZhou, they look much nicer than NYC, when I first got to NYC, the tracks were terrifying for me, I always have intrusive thoughts about falling in)

Its because once you build a system, its unlikely to get replaced even when better technology comes along. Too much cost to replace, politicians don't care.

Same thing with Constitutions.

It was written so long ago, now its too late to add new ideas like Defensive Democracy. 3/4 of US legislature means its almost impossible to add it as an amendment.

(Btw, Germany has a AfD problem, that they still haven't banned yet... 👀)

Edit: typos

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago

Oh nice, someone created a JavaScript-heavy website based on >100MB minimals.cc boilerplate to compose something that could well be made of a single HTML document.

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