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A collection of some classic Lemmy memes for your enjoyment
Anyone that says yaml is readable is psychotic. It's literally objectively not readable because a random white space character can break the entire thing and that's by definition not readable I can't see whether there's a white space or not without explicitly setting that up in an editor
The scandinavian country codes, as understood by yaml:
Only 1.1. Which everybody has been fiercely clinging onto since 2009, because YAML 1.2 did not seem to consider it a problem that they broke backwards compatibility on that behavior. So now the only way to keep existing YAML files working is for us all to keep pretending YAML 1.2 does not exist.
Ow! My semver.
uses yaml for scripting so it's clean and readable.
Eh....
I guess yaml is fine.
I hate the significance of whitespace, and the fact that I cannot find any editor that can auto-format. Which are both related, I guess: there is no way to know a yaml document is actually correctly formatted without knowing the intended schema.
Whereas JSON doesn't have this ambiguity. But JSON has it's own drawbacks.
I kinda like YAML for simple configuration files, but the YAML spec is borderline insane.
https://ruudvanasseldonk.com/2023/01/11/the-yaml-document-from-hell
And don't get me started with ansible, it never works the way I think it should and almost every playbook or role I write is a pain to get right. When it works, it's a really nice tool and I couldn't manage my homelab as efficiently without Ansible, but it frustrated the hell out of me way too often.
I feel I spend more time iterating yaml.
There isn't any tooling that actually helps you write it.
I feel like there is a gap in the market for a solution that uses typescript, typed python or some other type-able scripting language, which then generates the yaml files.
A language that has language servers, intellisense, all the modern dev tools. Schemas are provided as simple type descriptors. And whatever script you write then produces the correct result.
Some sort of framework on top of that to provide an opinionated workflow, and some tooling to lint/validate/produce.
And the result is yaml files which can be checked/diffed against in-place config, and version controlled for consistency.
You mean like ansible-lint or yaml-lint?
YAML is fine as a configuration language and ok data input language.
YAML is absolutely cursed as a programming language. As in Ansible has created a really shitty programming language inside of YAML. Should be burned with fire.
Protip: you can actually just write your ansible (or any yaml really( as JSON.
Honestly, fuck Ansible.
It's the dialup of automation tools. It was probably amazing 10 years ago.
It's YAML is awful, it scales terribly, it's so fucking slow at literally everything, it gives people who have no clue what they're doing a false sense of confidence.
The number of times I've seen app teams waste the time of support groups and engineers because something went wrong and they didn't have the knowledge to know why and need to waste so many man hours having other people solve it for them. I (the engineer) was added to a chat that had 15 people in it because they, after running ansible, saw errors in their server... So clearly there was a problem with the server... At no point did they question there Ansible job.
Of the various tools I've used, I prefer Salt. The YAML is slightly less ass and it's so much faster while also seeming to scaling better too. It by no means is perfect.
You had me at “fuck Ansible”.
Thanks for including an alternative you'd recommend!
Well you will be happy to hear that it's owned by Broadcom now. While salt is better, I wouldn't use it just because of Broadcom.
But then again, Oracle now owns Redhat, so....
IBM owns Red Hat.
Oops yeah. Not sure why I was thinking Oracle
I also appreciate the alternative suggestion. No terraform love?
Terraform and Ansible do different things, they do have overlapping features, but ultimately they're meant to do different things. I use them both at my current job with Terraform running Ansible
"Keep it simple" says the project that decided it would be great to program in YAML...
I've tried using it to manage a few home servers and parameterizing anything was painful and boilerplate-ridden
Jist wait until you have to start fucking around with multiple incompatible versions of python for different targets.
Except it isn't actually YAML you're writing, it's a jinja2 string template that parses to YAML because the expressions they came up with ended up not being sufficient.
Mm, I love stacking weird formats. How many backslashes do I need for a regular expression to work right? 🥵
THANK YOU FOR THE SUMMARY, BROTHER. I'M GONNA TRY IT OUT AFTER I CRANK MY HOG. AROOOOOO!
I have to say, the resurgence of this energy in the last whenever has been refreshing. Can't we all just crank our hogs?
Hello? Its me, NixOS.
NixOS : no dudes, its not raw screeching madness, its great. Just great. So great. Please read these 17 guides that are outdated more every minute to get started. Also, dont read that guide. We don't do that anymore, but there is no way for me to explain why unless you already know.
Ive tried NixOS three times now, and it hasn't took. Has anyone written a sane guide to the current iteration yet?
Listen. The more painful it is up front, the better you'll feel once you get it.
This is the argument I use to convince straight guys to let me bum them
Just so you know.
Ahh, I didn't realize we had mixed some "git gud" dark souls shit into my devops.
But seriously, I'll give your guide a look. Everyone should taste madness occasionally.
I've been using Ansible for almost 10 years now and one thing I learned is to keep things simple, most issues I had with Ansible in the past were due to me taking the wrong approach to problem solving. In way, it forced me to not overcomplicate things.
I'm not the biggest fan of it, but I do prefer it over other IaCs.
edit: tbh my biggest issue with Ansible is other people who ask me "why not wrtie a bash script instead?"
Finally, KISS enforced software
I hate anything that uses python or depends on whitespace in it's code. Nothing but fucking problems. You know what's hard to see an extra space in a line of code. A missing semicolon is so much easier to find.
I finally understand Ansible.
WASTHATSOFUCKINGHARD?!?!!
i keep telling myself what a timesaver ansible is, while at the same time my simple scripts got abstracted and puzzled into more files, much harder to quickly read and understand them and after hours of frustration, ansible actually works. there may be multiple minutes of delay between my tasks wasting time like hell but it works (as in not randomly fails to connect). except when it doesn’t. there still is a playbook where the host cannot be reached and i keep on failing to understand why as everything appears to be the same and looks correct. there will be more hours wasted.
Last time I checked on ansible, it was a sysadmin complaining that he could just do everything better with vanilla bash scripts and that redhat keeps riding it because every company keeps asking for ansible experience, even if it's now a dated product.
And just personally, declarative anything seems to defeat it's own purpose any time you want to do something non standard, which comes up more often than you'd think.
uses vanilla ssh
Clearly you haven't tried automation of network devices because it constantly bitches about missing ansible-pylibssh and falls back to Paramiko
Also completely parses your whole goddamn secrets file multiple times per run, so if you need to change a single server, make sure you have time.
I love this meme format!
You forgot that it can run without ssh set up, by installing ansible on the machines and letting them poll for changes.