this post was submitted on 23 Dec 2024
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TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name

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[–] [email protected] -4 points 44 minutes ago (2 children)

No, they alternated.

Sometimes they did proper scifi.

Sometimes they did politics.

I'm in it for the scifi mself.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 26 minutes ago

Sometimes they did proper scifi.

Sometimes they did politics.

Sometimes they did Space Wizards and sometimes they did Politics and sometimes they did both.

But the harder they leaned into actual Science Fiction the more they inevitably tackled the socio-economic ramifications of those technologies and discoveries. Legal Theories like The Prime Directive and social experiments like The Kobayashi Maru training exercise and the very depiction of aliens - the ultra-logical Vulcans who constantly resist their base emotional instincts, the war-loving Klingons, the xenophobic Romulans, the problem of domesticating an invasive species like the Tribbles - all convey political attitudes and ideologies.

This is inescapable. You can't create good apolitical Sci-Fi. Presenting the idea of a futuristic society without exploring the consequences of your modernizations is cowardly and boring.

[–] MajorHavoc 2 points 18 minutes ago* (last edited 5 minutes ago)

Your assertion that any sci-fi at all isn't political is a particularly bold one.

But it's a fascinating thought, so I'm going on an unrequested quest:

Here's my attempt at "let's name a hard science fiction that isn't making a political statement".

Perhaps...

  • "Frankenstein" is about grave robbing and biology horror and in no way an analogy for mistreatment of neurodivergent individuals.
  • "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea" is about a cool submarine and not about an ultra rich man's extreme rejection of modern societal norms bending the world of those around him.
  • "The Martian" was about the cold hard science of a man surviving on Mars, and not all about humanity briefly overcoming our national rivalries to do the human thing and being one person home safely.
  • "The Robot" is just about a time traveling robot, and not a sad prediction of mankind's likelihood to erradicate ourselves leaving only our automation to remember us by.
  • "Bicentenial Man" is about robotics advances and has nothing to do with marginalized people fighting to have their human rights acknowledged.
  • "The Expanse" is just about how dangerous space is, and not at all about how humanity tends to break off into adversarial groups.
  • "Snow piercer" is about a cool train in the cold.

Okay, now I'm not even trying anymore, lol. (Snow piercer is blatantly deeply political, no matter how much I love the cool science train.)

I'm coming up short, arguing myself out of my best ideas, so far.

Hang on, I've got two:

  • "Around the world in 80 days" is arguably at least slightly more about globe trotting and less about putting up with a rich employer's bullshit.
  • "Journey to the Center of the Earth" is mostly about cool caves and dinosaurs?!

I should reread these two, but I don't remember many political messages.

(Edit. I bet someone is going to point out the political messages I missed in 80 Days and Journey. Considering how political I remember 20,000 Leagues being, I wonder if I just misremember the other two...)

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (1 children)

https://youtube.com/watch?v=QFspemhHmsw A Critique of Star Trek Discovery — Part 1 #RIPStarTrek

This whole essay is worth listening to, but 15:46-30:33 in particular gets at the heart of a big reason why classic Trek rocks and why nuTrek is shit.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 24 minutes ago

Lower Decks remains very good. CBS has tried to pivot Star Trek from Sci-Fi to Space Adventure, and that's been ugly. But not every series they've spun out took that tone.

Also Orville - particularly the latest season - has been incredible. Everything Star Trek is supposed to be.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 11 hours ago

I havent gotten past the original series yet (I started with that), so far Star Trek seems like the entire point is to get into complex social and political issues that other companies would be too scared to cover.

[–] [email protected] 38 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

“Shatner figured it out? Shatner? This is a real low point. Yeah, this one hurts.”

[–] MajorHavoc 21 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (1 children)

"When I have a problem that phasers can't solve, I just kiss a beautiful alien. Then suddenly, I have a completely different problem!" - Jason Tiberius Kirk

Edit: I may have drifted into the Kelvin timeline...

[–] [email protected] 16 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (1 children)

“I'm a legit snack” - Nyota Uhura

[–] ICastFist 3 points 4 hours ago

More like the main course 😏

[–] [email protected] 59 points 20 hours ago (2 children)

Nichelle Nichols was at one point thinking of quitting the show but stayed because MLK Jr. himself told her how important her character was.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 18 hours ago

And without Nichelle Nichols on Star Trek, she wouldn't have been hired by NASA and then we wouldn't have had Sally Ride, so she is a legitimate space hero.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

She thought about leaving because she didn't feel like her character got to do enough - a common sentiment of supporting actors.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

It was TNG that really established an ensemble cast formula; TOS was Kirk-Spock-McCoy and the rest. It took TNG a couple seasons before they got the idea of a true ensemble cast where everyone gets to star in some episodes. TOS wouldn't have had more than one episode starring Reginald Barcklay with Geordi and Dianna in supporting roles, but TNG had at least two.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 hours ago

TOS wouldn't have had more than one episode starring Reginald Barcklay with Geordi and Dianna in supporting roles, but TNG had at least two.

Three, even. Horny holideck, barkley gets his groove on, and transporter cuddles.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 22 hours ago (7 children)

They didn’t have everything figured out back then. For one, they bullied Spock for what we could only describe today as his neurodiversity.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 18 hours ago (3 children)

The message I got from McCoy was that humans got along because they found new people to be racist against instead of each other

[–] [email protected] 14 points 18 hours ago

It helps when every other planet is a severely flawed monocolutre.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago)

McCoy called Spock "green-blooded" on multiple occasions - and once a "hobgoblin". And I would call the Vulcan penchant for logic a cultural trait, not neurodiversity.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

And there will be things that are being created today that's considered progressive that in 20 years, will be considered as missing the mark.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 19 hours ago (9 children)

Kind of yeah, but Gene Roddenberry used allegories like the half black and half white dudes who hated each other - which took more effort than having characters just walk around in the present saying, "Wow, look at all the social injustice."

[–] [email protected] 29 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

Yeah he was real subtle. Not full of preachy monologues at all.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 16 hours ago (3 children)

Roddenberry was both a genuinely progressive guy and an extremely 20th century man. "In the future we're going to cure disease and hunger and everyone of all races and creeds will work together there's gonna be a black woman, an asian guy, a Russian and an alien with funny ears on the bridge all working as a team and the women will all wear wrist length gogo dresses and there's gonna be an episode where the crew is utterly baffled at the very concept of racism. We're gonna paint some actors with half of their faces white and half of their faces black and they're gonna be really horrible to each other and when asked why they're gonna say "They're white on the left side and we're white on the right side" and it's gonna make racism sound really dumb."

I struggle to have a problem with a guy whose message is "Systematic hatred is extremely bad and stupid, let's look at sexy legs instead."

[–] [email protected] 7 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

As transparent as Gene's little parables were, I vastly prefer that method of social commentary over just saying "They certainly were unenlightened in the early 21st century weren't they - shame on them!"

[–] [email protected] 7 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

I haven't watched any Star Trek since Enterprise. Are they worse at it now? It has been a long road getting form there to here.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

IMO Picard season 1 is fantastic and season 2 has some embarrassingly awkward social justice preaching but a good story about the Borg queen. Haven't seen season 3 or Below Decks yet.

[–] MajorHavoc 1 points 10 minutes ago

Haven't seen season 3

Uhhhh.... Just so you know, most of us consider Season 3 the good one.

I enjoyed all three, but S3 was particularly a beautiful love letter to TNG.

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[–] [email protected] 67 points 1 day ago (17 children)

Guaranteed if original Star Trek came out today, it would be decried as "woke" and "DEI" and there would be outrage over it from the usual culture warriors.

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