this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2024
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Those non-violent protests shook them so bad they wanted to charge non-violent Quaker protestors with terrorism.

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[–] [email protected] 162 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (3 children)

Is true.

That is why so soooo many headlines everywhere are preaching how this should have been done through voting & protests or whatever.

Iirc majority of Murikans want public healthcare for at least two decades now, yet nothing has changed (except living generations).

[–] [email protected] 80 points 6 days ago

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable."

[–] [email protected] 25 points 6 days ago

But taxes!!!!!

Said anyone who doesn't know that minus $600/month that only covers the basics plus $300? in taxes that covers a lot more is a net savings.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 6 days ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 15 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Peaceful protest, electoralism, those are spooks. If you want to stop something, try physical destruction.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

Not opposing your comment at all, more of a rare occurrence fun fact: Even an actual (ie financially or personality effective) show of power is enough sometimes.

Eg unions in USA haven't killed any tycoons for the longest time. But they do get a loaf of bread per week more in wages when they stop working for a few days.

Not all revolutions need to be as complete as the French or Russian (tho that works, but also costs a few years of instability & political power struggles), 10% of the elite de-elited (eg losing their wealth bcs of direct demos actions) would send a big message in USAs case.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 days ago (3 children)

Even just for something as mundane as protected bike lanes, I've found through personal experience that just a couple instances of direct action against motorists who tried to park in them was infinitely more effective than years of begging peacefully for barriers.

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[–] [email protected] 96 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (4 children)

What's that old JFK quote? Those who make peaceful change impossible make violent revolution inevitable?

The state draws its legitimacy from the social contract. When people no longer feel like the social contract is beneficial to them or to society - ie as one might feel with a healthcare system that is 100+ years out of date and has received one (1) bandaid for normal folk in the past 50 years - the state can no longer expect individuals to uphold their end of the social contract (adherence to laws, norms, and peaceable conduct).

This doesn't mean "the overthrow of the government is coming tomorrow", but rather means that the social contract is beginning to fray, and a failure of those in power to recognize and accede to that fact (by making major concessions) will result in this sort of incident continually intensifying until... well, until the social contract is gone to a large swathe of people, and then at that point, the overthrow of the government will be imminent, for better or worse.

All interactions between state and citizen are implicitly negotiated. Negotiations require leverage. Violence has always been a form of leverage. But assassinations are far more powerful leverage than riots.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 6 days ago

Even if you want a peaceful protest, the state security apparatus will turn into a riot when they need to discredit the protester, ie Floyd Protests is recent example.

Then older people start pearl clutching over "black youth" "looting" a corporate location! The horror!

Liberals will bring some generic race arguments etc

Now we got a proper circle jerk and discussion about police brutality is third order of operation.

its afraid.jpeg because we have not seen such class unity in modern history.

Good.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 days ago

This last election made me into an anarchist for now. I do not believe there is any way to salvage this system we have in any meaningful way. I'm not a violent person so I can't see myself doing anything like Luigi, but Democrats aren't going to save anyone and are just one part of the problem.

I think Donald could be the death blow to our country as more and more of our social contract is upended, especially with talks of killing the ACA and other popular programs.

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[–] [email protected] 63 points 6 days ago (15 children)

This is why peaceful protest is legal, it accomplishes nothing.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 days ago (5 children)

Then why do peaceful protestors get arrested and brutalised by cops all the time?

[–] [email protected] 14 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

Target practice. Did you see the video where they shot the teenager standing still on a hill doing nothing? The shot him in the head with a rubber bullet, causing concussion and permanent damage. The officer high fives another officer right after.

The kid was literally just standing there doing nothing. A fucking child was used as target practice by adult civil servants.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 days ago

Easy targets.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 days ago (3 children)

Gandhi disagrees

(Unless he's playing Civ)

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 6 days ago (4 children)

Individual, spontaneous acts alone are not sufficient either. This is adventurism, which is fun to celebrate but does not actually change the equation. The answer is neither peaceful organizing nor individual aggression, but mass, millitant organizing! Throughout all of history, there have been no successful changes in the status quo without a mass, organized movement. Read theory and get organized. If you need a place to start, I suggest my introductory Marxist reading list.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 6 days ago (1 children)

The answer is neither peaceful organizing nor individual aggression, but mass, millitant organizing!

This is true, but also extremely difficult, especially in an era of mass media induced paranoia and alienation. Mass militant organizing requires a large cohesive social class that has a center of gravity - a church house or a social club or a workhouse floor - that increasingly no longer exists.

Social media was supposed to be the new venue for mass mobilization, and we saw the beginnings of it in the early '00s. But media consolidation, saturation from automated marketing accounts, and counter-programming have largely washed it out.

Read theory and get organized.

One is significantly easier than the other.

That said... go look for local unions in your town or neighborhood. Look for chapters of the DSA or the PSL or other labor-friendly organizing groups. Go to your local PTA meetings and city council meetings when you can, and get to know the people who show up there regularly. Get out of the house and meet people where they are.

That's all good advice. But its also hard, exhausting work. And its done in the face of enormous headwinds. Don't mistake the failure of leftism as a simple failure of "human nature" or whatever. We're in an entrenched system and attempting a Herculean feat to change it.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 days ago

Revolution, rather than being easy or impossible, is simply and truthfully hard. I agree, and that's why it is important to start building that and contribute to those who have already started.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 6 days ago (6 children)

As someone that was at the protest, at no point did I think it would result in the war stopping. It was still worthwhile, however. In retrospect, the war was so much worse than any of us knew at the time and also based on flimsy and/or no evidence of WMD. Business as usual in America. We'd do it all over again today, I have no doubt.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 days ago (5 children)

They knew there weren't WMDs and used the fear of 9/11 attacks to push the war. They had OpEd pieces published to further push the idea of WMDs.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 6 days ago (1 children)

The protests were amazing, nothing like it before or since. The media suppressed coverage of them as best they could. They couldn't totally ignore them but gave almost 0 coverage. Masses and masses of people packing the streets. Wish we'd had drones back then to get some good aerial footage.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 6 days ago (3 children)

It was also preceded by a violent act of terrorism that made people support whatever the president wanted to do in the middle east.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 days ago (5 children)

It was also preceded by a violent act of terrorism

Its so easy for people to forget the decades of violent acts committed in and around the Saudi Peninsula, and fixate instead on a handful of retaliatory strikes against US interests. The Battle of Mogadeshu, which involved Black Hawk helicopters obliterating Somali mosques with hellfire missiles. The brutal occupation of the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan, from 1992 to 2001 as a US-backed narco-state. The entire Iran-Iraq War, sponsored by US arms dealers and double-dealing diplomats, which resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Arab and Persian young people. The occupation of Saudi Arabia by a western-backed military dictatorship going back nearly a century. The violent overthrow of democracies from Indonesia to Egypt in pursuit of neoliberal international trade policy.

9/11 didn't happen in a vacuum any more than the Brian Thompson assassination or the aborted coup in South Korea. These have long historical tails that trace back to a geopolitical policy that's racked up a staggering death toll.

To quote Mark Twain:

There were two "Reigns of Terror," if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the "horrors" of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror—that unspeakably bitter and awful Terror which none of us has been taught to see in its vastness or pity as it deserves.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 6 days ago

American problems require American solutions

[–] [email protected] 25 points 6 days ago (2 children)

And the gun was 3d printed. They will not stop at making 3d printing illegal.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 6 days ago (1 children)

honestly if you can 3d print something you can make something almost as strong out of wood, it just takes more effort

one could also easily make a disposable mold for a low-melting-point metal alloy, those are much stronger than 3d prints and many can be melted on a normal stove

I think the problem is more that information on how to make guns is now easily available, rather than the specific usefulness of 3d printing as a manufacturing technique

[–] [email protected] 24 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Shinzo Abe was assassinated.with a doohickey made out of a wood board and metal conduit pipes wrapped up in electrical tape

[–] [email protected] 19 points 6 days ago

I remember huge student protests for weeks on end. Then, over spring break when all the students were off elsewhere - the bombs began to drop.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 days ago (4 children)

Indeed and wait until Mango Fucking Mussolini decides to invade Iran. That will be one hell of a protest.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Cool sticker on your cybertruck!

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 6 days ago

Just want to plug the movie and book How to Blow Up a Pipeline. Also the book Rattling the Cages.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 days ago

Partially because "peaceful" and the definition of what would or would not be accepted as valid protest became co-opted by the management/ ivy league class.

Compare the Seattle WTO protests to the 2003-2005 Iraq protests.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 days ago

We want public healthcare. This act of violins highlights the anger we feel. It doesn't bring us closer to a solution. But imagine the roles swapped. We continuously live in fear of getting sick and then going bankrupt and homeless because of it. But what about from the other side...imagine a wolf in a house eating his sheep dinner. Imagine that asshole dancing around and humping several wolfority mates every night having the time of it's miserable life....and suddenly that wolf peaks at the window and has a sudden realization... Sudden because he suddenly opened the window. It realizes that there's nothing but sheep outside, all looking at him thru the window. Goes up to the roof top and observes himself surrounded by million upon millions of sheep all looking directly at him. The wolf sees one fellow wolf nearby as the sheep trample him. The wolf listens to his friend's bones crackling into mush. So just close the blinds and have another sheep from the fridge? Or maybe address the impending problem?

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