If only Hollywood would understand that.
this post was submitted on 05 Nov 2024
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Yeah! We demand something original and compelling! Like Megalopolis!
Oh, wait...
https://www.boxofficemojo.com/title/tt10128846/?ref_=bo_se_r_1
But we can just have AI write the stories now. I’ll be much faster and cheaper than hiring writers. And I’m sure it’ll be just as good.
They'll certainly be better than anything Snyder is involved with.
Having just bombed in an almost solely VFX production, this man knows what he's talking about
What was he in?
Polar Express
That "just bombed" is doing some very heavy lifting here, considering that Polar Express was released 20 years ago.
Its some new Zemekis movie where he uses AI to go through 60 years of a person life.
Can't be bothered to search.
Here (2024) apparently.
Yes, that was the joke.
“just”?
Audiences have always been interested in good storytelling. The reason the MCU took off was because it told good stories. The problem is that the stories have become too formulaic or half-baked.
People showed up for Deadpool and Wolverine, so the issue isn't about comic book movies.
Are you suggesting that Deadpool vs Wolverine is an example of good storytelling?
I watched it recently, not expecting much. And was still disappointed.
yes
In context of this conversation Deadpool vs Wolverine would be storytelling of storytelling. Great examples are all the breaking of the forth wall and exploration of tangential stories or actors that had short lives or never made it off a writers page. It was less a single cohesive story and more a moving about storytelling.
Ah good, a Marvel movie! I wonder what will happen?
- Super cool opening number showing how awesome it is
- Baddy makes huge entrance and introduces themselves to the protagonist
- Who is this guy? Let's get some backstory
- Funny cameo
- First fight with baddy, which is lost
- Self reflection, pump up talk, You're the god of thunder not the god of hammers, I'm taking the suit back, etc etc
- Huge baddy fight which is awesome, optional expensive background music
- Quick wrap up with slight cliffhanger for sequel
Ah that was fun, did it feel similar to <> though?
(And I say this as someone who loved the marvel movies, up until endgame, but everything since phase 3 has followed this pattern very closely)
Don't forget how the bad guy is just a bigger, badder version of the hero.
"We're not so different, you and I"
I'm not strong enough, but I'll use my actual secret power: Screaming.
I hate how we can't just have villains anymore. It's either a future corrupted version of our current hero, or we spend about a third of the runtime making our villains relatable so people can be upset when the consequences finally catch up to them.
Imo we don't need relatable villains, which is ironic because I used to think being evil for the sake of being evil was annoying, until it went away.
IW killed it, it broke us completely.
Endgame was expurgation, but we're still so overloaded, I think the only thing even remotely interesting to me has been loki. And that's just because tom h is the most charming thing to exist.
I loved IW and even endgame. But looking back, even it followed the same pattern, just in longer form. IW ends with the first fight with baddy, which is lost. Once you see the pattern you can't unsee it
100%
I’d say hype and seeing Hugh Jackman again was what carried D&W, not really the storytelling. When you peel away the character hype and humor, the story was actually pretty bland.
The story was a temu version of loki.
Wolverine was by far the best part, even with all the attempted fan service.
But man, the first D vs W fight, and then when he pulled up his mask.
D&W was two hours of pure fanservice. The story was extremely forgettable and I think that was intentional.
And still a good movie!
He is right, but overlooking a major detail when it comes to flops.
Spectacle movies have consistently flopped when the story sucks. The early Marvel movies were fairly solid and built up the brand, Nolan's Batman trilogy was pretty solid, and even Snyder's DC fare was doing ok even if it would have been far more popular by not rushing overstuffed BvS and Justice League.
But Green Lantern flopped in 2011, and like the newer movies that are flopping the massive budget was the main issue. Spectacle on its own was never enough to draw in enough butts in seats to make a $200 million dollar budget movie profitable. Even more so now that there are multiple movies with $200 million dollar budgets competing for the same viewing audience.
So yeah, the story side has been dragging down the more recent comic book movies overall but the real killer is the massive budgets. Deadpool didn't actually need to trade the spectacle for story, but they did need to aim for a reasonable amount of spectacle.
Funny how someone always talks shit about comic book movies after one of their movies gets bad reviews.
Nah. I've been talking shit about Marvel movies since the first Xmen movies came out.
Did you star in movie that got bad reviews?
Also those weren't made by Marvel.
Lol the term "Marvel movie" didn't even exist back then! And they didn't start making movies until 4 years later...
I like VFX .... what I don't like is the monotonous repetitive stories from comic book movies
- intro of hero
- hero is attacked by villain
- villain wins and is more powerful
- hero fights back but loses
- villain is winning
- hero fights back again ... wins at the last possible moment
- everyone lives happily ever after
*insert faceless army of disposables
Literally lots of movies could boil down to that, the fucking journey is what matters, we all the know the good guy wins in the end
One of the prime rules of storytelling is that the hero has to have a flaw.
Superman is super. He can't lose. That's why the writers introduced Kryptonite. Captain America is a super-soldier, but is still mortal. Thor is a god, but can lose his hammer and his powers.
The problem with Superhero movies is that they all got so much power they became invincible, and boring.
Good, classic storytelling beats VFX 10/10.
I'd argue that they still meet the criteria, even the seemingly invincible characters, by making their flaw caring about someone close to them. Villains these days often present a danger not because they're capable of killing the hero, but because the hero has a close personal attachment to someone that isn't invincible.
Did Tom Hanks just watch Agatha All Along? Jac Schaeffers MCU work seems to be the only one carrying post phase 3. That and Loki at least.
I just have to chime in to say that Godzilla Minus One is a masterpiece in terms of story telling and VFX. You don't have to be a fan of Godzilla or anything in particular, this movie is 10/10 in all categories. Blew my fucking mind!
Fair point but GM1 is definitely outside of the "big spectacle movie" industry, with a very moderate budget and a big emphasis on story telling. It's really an amazing movie for sure
Not a fan of the "modern" style Godzilla movies. This one was really good.
Adding it to my watch list. 👍
I feel like quality is severely underestimated here. Everybody now has 1-tap access to aggregate reviews from seasoned reviewers and regular audiences. When a movie sucks, everyone finds out and your marketing budget suddenly means nothing.
Good movies aren't guaranteed to make a profit, but in 2024, bad ones are pretty much guaranteed not to. This is completely independent of a single element like VFX.