This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
I just go without.
the overwhelming majority of apps are nothing but websites wrapped in apps that strip away all the privacy and protections anyway, and demand far to many permissions for shit that are completely irrelevant to their purpose (because they want to siphon literally everything out of your phone and monetize the information).
I'd rather miss a deal, a sale, or whatever, than to deal with that shit.
When the app is prompting you to accept cookies
TBH I dont use an app for anything that can be done in the browser, especially when mobile websites ask me tl get their app.
I'm the same way. The less apps there are on my phone, the better. Also, using the web app is the only way to block ads on certain sites such as Instagram or Twitter.
My favorite part of the 30 day dumb phone challenge I did recently: I couldn't install your crappy app even if I wanted to.
A little over halfway through the challenge, was paying for my order at a local eatery, and the cashier started plugging their new app and rewards points and digital coupons and shit. I was like "I'm gonna stop you right there: flip phone." and pulled it out of my pocket and brandished it like I was the sheriff of Luddite-ville.
Kinda like this, but "Flip phone!"
You can do almost anything with a website that you could do with an app. The only reason they are pushing the apps so hard is because they can collect a lot more data than a website can.
As Cory Doctorow put it, "An app is just a web-page wrapped in enough IP to make it a felony to add an ad-blocker to it."
The cloud is many things, but most of all, it's a trap. When software is delivered as a service, when your data and the programs you use to read and write it live on computers that you don't control, your switching costs skyrocket. Think of Adobe, which no longer lets you buy programs at all, but instead insists that you run its software via the cloud. Adobe used the fact that you no longer own the tools you rely upon to cancel its Pantone color-matching license. One day, every Adobe customer in the world woke up to discover that the colors in their career-spanning file collections had all turned black, and would remain black until they paid an upcharge:
The cloud allows the companies whose products you rely on to alter the functioning and cost of those products unilaterally. Like mobile apps – which can't be reverse-engineered and modified without risking legal liability – cloud apps are built for enshittification. They are designed to shift power away from users to software companies. An app is just a web-page wrapped in enough IP to make it a felony to add an ad-blocker to it. A cloud app is some Javascript wrapped in enough terms of service clickthroughs to make it a felony to restore old features that the company now wants to upcharge you for.
I legitimately want to scream sometimes as I feel the continual death of local computing and actual software, and it depresses me to no end how few businesses or users see it for what it is.
And it's exactly this: a trap. A trap users people are racing into, and they have no idea, at all, how bad it's going to get when the doors close behind them.
The rest of us are left with little recourse. Looking at the difference between Outlook and New Outlook is genuinely depressing because that's the future we're all being shepherded into against our will. I swear, in like 10 years, Windows will mostly just be a kiosk for Edge.
I'm with you 100% up to the "little recourse," I think there's more options now than there have ever been. Open source (including linux and self hosting) are about the only tech-future things I'm genuinely excited about.
There's still a learning curve and progress to be made, for sure. However, anecdotally, I've seen programming and hosting become vastly more accessible in the last 15 years. Also, not everyone needs to self host, people just need to know someone who is willing and able to set them up.
Not saying it's a guarantee, but it's a possible way out, at least. And being here on lemmy, reading and writing about these issues is a good sign there's movement in the right direction.
Windows will mostly just be a kiosk for Edge.
I think for the vast majority of average users this has been true for a long time.
I agree with you on everything, other than
I legitimately want to scream sometimes as I feel the continual death of local computing and actual software
...it seems to me that it's never been better, there's free software for everything, osm data for mapping, it's just that our expectations have shifted.
This is the main reason why I seldom install anyone's "app".
Most of these apps aren't true apps anyway, they're just customized browsers that lead you to a website and are free to collect as much data from you and your phone as they want.
I'll go on your website first if I have to and 9 / 10 I get what I want. Besides, I'll only ever visit the service once or twice so I don't need to install a permanent app on my phone for that.
Also desktop mode to circumvent those phone detection systems and trying to force an app.
Desktop mode plus zoom out on iOS, sometimes… then over to a desktop browser app when that falls. Sigh
One big supermarket chain here has an app where you get a few cents bonus discount on already discounted items with the app coupon. The in-store announcement praises it as the first place of some insitute's supermarket app ranking. Even if that institute were legit, the ranking fair and the spot well-deserved, I always felt like that's a competition with no winners.
I legitimately do not have enough space on my phone to install all the crappy bloatware of all the stores I go to. They quite literally ask the impossible of me.
I have yet to see an app that does something a website could not do...
most apps are just containerized websites.
You know why?
Cause browsers do a lot to protect your data from invasive sniffing.
but if you containerize it in an app, you can remove all those pesky safety measures Which lets you turn a customer into a product by siphoning up all their data and information.
I work in a manufacturing environment. A few years ago they decided they needed a company social media app. They hired, or more likely were sold the idea by Salesforce and built this stupid ass website, then went on a fucking War campaign to get people to install the app on their phone.
They demanded. They begged. They removed functions of HR to the app exclusively. When we protested they simply said no, no room to negotiate, no give. You will use the app or you will not have access to certain information required to do your job. When they closed the plant one day and posted it on the app, they threatened to write up an entire shift that showed up to work anyway without knowing any better.
Because apparently, when you get up at 4 am the first thing you're supposed to do every day is check an app on your phone to see if you have work that day.
They used to just push out a robo call.
When we have committee meetings with HR they go something like this.
HR: how can we get you guys on the app Committee: how can we retrieve these functions from the app HR: you can't Committee: that's your answer.
There have been at least 6 versions of this meeting that I have been a part of.
Most of my coworkers are older than me. Few of them have fancy phones, generally the most basic phone you can get. A number of my coworkers are on parole or work release and have limited access to smart phones for one reason or another and literally have no access to the app.
I was chatting with one of the IT gals recently and apparently resistance to the app is pretty widespread. When I said "venture capital IT firm" she gave me a high five.
They want everyone using this thing and maybe 15% of the company has it. Then they switched to Workday.
It hasn't gone well.
I'm surprised you guys havent started the push of "If you are going to force us to have this app for essential day to day work, then you need to provide us with phones to put it on, because we can not be expected to devalue our personal devices with excess work related use"
I did mention at one of these meetings that we wouldn't give them space on our personal devices for free, it did not change their tune. The union has been hammering them on it during negotiations but I doubt they'll budge on that and we have bigger issues to deal with so they won't let it be a sticking point.
Push Notifications, Mediacontrol with locker screen..
Websites can absolutely send push notifications.
And the app is just a glorified website (Electron app).
I recently switched to GrapheneOS and decided to avoid the Google Play store entirely, and honestly, the inconveniences have been pretty limited. The only bank I've had trouble with is Citi, everything else (I've tried several others) work fine through the browser. Likewise for most services I use, the web version works fine, though occasionally I'll need to use the "desktop" version.
Some services just don't work properly on the web, but most of the ones I used to use through an app work just fine. Give it a try, maybe together we can send a signal that apps should only exist when they provide value.
It still depends. I live in China and the internet here suckass. Every product, say taobao(Amazon), xianyu(eBay), Alipay(PayPal), WeChat(instant msg), banking, etc. that is crucial to your daily usage mandatories an application. The API is closed and the webapp has no functionality other than a banner with "go fuck our mobile app". The only way to bypass these privacy beast apps is to live in an isolated wood cabinet with self-sufficient agriculture.
Wow, that sucks. I imagine government policy has a significant influence here...
If the apps wouldn't be slow React Native or whatever "multiplatform framework" crapware, then I'd actually say that well designed, native Swift UI (iOS) or Material (Android) apps can enhance the user experience for a lot of services that are otherwise offered via website. Native integrations with shortcuts, widgets, fully supporting accessibility features of the OS etc.
The problem is most apps are just low-effort web app conversions.
The problem is most apps are just low-effort web app conversions.
If only that. Web apps are relatively well sandboxed. Most dedicated apps (that should be websites) are designed to harvest as much data as they can and spam you with notifications/ads.
Hell I use my garden diary selfhosted service via a webapp (hortusfox).
Just put a direct link on my homescreen. With the included favicon it almost looks like a native app.
Isn’t that the promise of App Clips? iOS and Android both allow you to run a mini app temporarily for shopping and not cluttering your system.
But I mean, you gotta install an app if you want that functionality. The key thing is if you do or do not have full control of that app. While you allow it freedom in your 🤳📱, is it doing stuff you are not aware of that you don't want it to do. Like I found an app to do a sound sweep. Great, but will it go thru my contacts while I'm at work? It is going to learn about who I work with because it has blue tooth access. That's just nefarious shitty business that should be illegal. Either tell me what it does or don't do anything other than want you say it does. I also write my own apps for photography stuff and I wouldn't want to have to go ask a judge if I can please use my phone for specific programming I want to do.
Used get my haircut at one of those "no appointment needed" haircut chains. Then they got an app, and every time I went it was "Why aren't you using the app? You need to use the app. Next time use the app. Download the app on your phone. It's gonna be an hour wait because you didn't use the app."
Now I just go to a local place.
Open source social media app: 30MB full size.
Privative social media app: 300MB install + 500 MG data full size 700MG
Go figure. I could have thousand of apps. If they were not packed with intrusive software to get all my data and to lock the company IP.
The most ironic part...
.... an ad for an app for the article....
