this post was submitted on 02 Oct 2024
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[–] [email protected] 110 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Didn't see what community I was in when I read the post and thought there were just a lot of people here who hate stand up comedians doing crowd work

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I thought it was referring to "standup meetings," which is what we called weekly meetings with the commander in the military.

Everyone stands for the commander when he enters a room, then each person presenting needs to be standing while briefing the commander.

It's military protocol for a high-ranking officer, although the cool officers would tell everyone to buck protocol, remain seated, and just give them the bullet points so we can get back to work.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I hate crowd work. Getting called on while on a night out is my worst nightmare

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[–] [email protected] 82 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

The purpose of stand up is to not listen to anything and say a sentence that no one listens to. It's like a Buddhist meditation.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 weeks ago

Yeah - it's an art to find the perfect mix between "sounds complicated enough that they zone out", "sounds like stuff gets done" and "not making people ask if you need help with that".

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 weeks ago

Lemmy keeps it real.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

lol I hope your standups are not actually like this! The purpose is to, as a team, plan what the team will do today to achieve the Sprint goal

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago

I'm not actually a programmer (/engineer) I'm just a hobbyist. I work in supply chain, have worked at 4 companies in 8 years - all had stand ups, all of them are like this.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Err... Is your team doing planning during standup? I've never heard of that, from either people who are on teams that use standups, or from any of the Agile/Scrum literature that I've seen. In my experience, standups are typically about either a) coordinating the execution of work that has already been committed to, or b) whoops just a status meeting and everybody's tuned out.

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[–] [email protected] 57 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

If this actually rings true, there's something pretty wrong in your team.

Stand up should be a quick and uncontroversial meeting talking about what you've done, what you'll do and anything you need help with, plus maybe a couple of minutes of small talk before you start.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

You mean you're not actually supposed to spend 2 hours daily unfucking everyone's shit during the standup turn by turn?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 weeks ago

We waste the two hours doing code reviews that only three people actually need to be present for, I always appreciate the chance to zone out and do something else for a big part of the day. Follow that with lunch and I've just done half a day's work by watching TV

[–] [email protected] 20 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

My team does this for the first ~15 minutes and then we move to "group think" for any tough problems or "water cooler chat" for the remaining 15. You're allowed to leave if it's just water cooler chat, so I really like it

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 weeks ago

That sounds about 25 mins longer than i'm willing to call a standup.

if it's not wrapped up within 10 mins of the scheduled start time something has gone horribly wrong

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Problem is in practice, I suspect something is pretty wrong in most teams.

Some common examples come to my mind:

  • Management hears "talk about what you've done and what you will do" so great time to sit in and take notes for performance review, and it becomes a "make sure management knows you spent all your time and did really impressive stuff" meeting. Also throws a kink in "things I need help with" as there's always the risk that management decides you aren't self sufficient enough if they hear you got stuck, so you also need to defend why you got stuck and how it isn't your fault.
  • The people who feel like everyone needs to know the minutia of their trials and tribulations including all the intermediate dead ends they went down on the way to their final result. Related to the above, but there are people who think to do this even without the need to impress management.
  • The people who cannot stand to "take it offline" and will stop everything to fully work a problem while everyone is still ostensibly supposed to stay in the meeting despite having nothing to do with the two people talking (sometimes even just one, a guy starts talking to himself as he tries to do something live).
  • Groups that are organized but have very little common ground. An "everything must be scrum" company sticks a guy who does stuff like shipping and receiving into a development team and there's no 'scrum-like' interaction to be had and yet, there he is wasting his time and having to talk about stuff no one else on that meeting has a need to hear either.
[–] [email protected] 39 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

My dumb ass: " Wtf how often do you have to go to comedy stand ups for it to be self care NOT to go. SMH."

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Once, if it's Ricky Gervais

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago

If I ever was in a room with him, I'd ask if he thinks there's ever a situation where a comedian should have priorities beyond getting a laugh. He seems to operate on the assumption it's a no, and I want to hear him openly say that, or else have the opportunity to call him out.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Hm. Might not be standup that’s the problem. Might be a company culture thing. But only you know that for sure. Good luck op! Disassociation can be a life saver.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Yeah but then I'm up and sitting there like "oh shit, what the hell did I do yesterday?"

[–] [email protected] 23 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Stand ups (as originally described) shouldn't be about what you already did, but what you are going to be working on and if there is a need to collaborate.

Most people got the concept wrong and turned them into mini status meetings.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 weeks ago

Yepp, and no one really listens to the others, just trying to remember what you did and make sure no one dumps more work on you.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago

True. I've worked in pretty small teams with usually 2-4 devs paired, so it kind of worked out as both what we got through, what's next priority, and how we plan to split out that day. Especially if we were light on stories.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 weeks ago
[–] [email protected] 20 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

the more i learn about software development, the more i feel I've dodged a bullet by changing my major to electrical engineering.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Well, if you learn about software development from reddit and Lemmy, that's one thing. Not always representative of the real world.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

its the things I hear from real software developers that concern me:

  • You will spend your entire career chasing trends.
  • The market is volatile. People are constantly getting abruptly laid off. SD has never been very stable, so you should plan on getting a new job every few years.
  • Software companies are constantly looking for ways to make SD easier. As a result, your value will decrease over time, in preference for bootcampers and 2 year degree graduates.
  • Nobody listens to developers. Your manager's beliefs about SD come entirely from consultants, magazines, and Elon Musk tweets.
  • Nobody cares about quality software. If you take the time to make your code efficient and lightweight, all your manager sees is you taking longer to make something than your peers. After all, we can just raise hardware requirements if the software is slow.
[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)
  • You will spend your entire career chasing trends.

Depends on the language, that's mostly a JavaScript/typescript issue.

  • The market is volatile. People are constantly getting abruptly laid off. SD has never been very stable, so you should plan on getting a new job every few years.

Depends on the country, where I'm from there has been very few layoffs.

  • Software companies are constantly looking for ways to make SD easier. As a result, your value will decrease over time, in preference for bootcampers and 2 year degree graduates.

Not sure what to say, I haven't felt my value decrease. All I see are bubbles saying they will replace me.. and then they burst.

Nobody listens to developers. Your manager's beliefs about SD come entirely from consultants, magazines, and Elon Musk tweets.

Agree but that's more of an engineering wide problem, specially when you get managers with very few engineering experience. Take the Apollo landings as an opposite example: great managers that were great engineers.

  • Nobody cares about quality software. If you take the time to make your code efficient and lightweight, all your manager sees is you taking longer to make something than your peers. After all, we can just raise hardware requirements if the software is slow.

This is a bit too generic to argue against. You can get that in electrical engineering no? If you take more time designing that PCB because you want to better place the components to improve heat dissipation, will your manager care in the end?

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 weeks ago

Never join a robotics startup, lol. You will have to go to standup and it will be useless and annoying basically every time.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Counterpoint: If you're working from home it might be the only people contact you get for days.

Supposedly talking to people and touching grass is healthy.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

My fear of working full-remote. I mean I got enough friends, but still that's significant less social time, when not being in something like a coworking space... Although other benefits are really tempting (like 2 to 3 times the salary)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Wait, you earn more to not commute?

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 weeks ago

But stand-up comedy has something for everyone!

Oh, this is about the depressing nexus between programming and corporate culture. Carry on.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

I get every week or so, but every day is just way too much. I'm a big kid, that's what you hired me for, let me work.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The worst thing about standups is that about once a month I catch a problem early because of what someone says. The tradeoff doesn't feel worth it time-wise. But it keeps me from skipping them.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago

Wake up, stand up, talk about your work vaguely enough there are no questions.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 weeks ago

I like stand-up. It's probably the only time of the day I see my coworkers. Also we don't do status reports or anything so maybe I'm just lucky ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 weeks ago

Not attempting stand-up, too

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago

My first and third job had daily standup, my second and fourth job don't have daily standup. I'm on my fourth job. I love not having standup.

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