this post was submitted on 01 Oct 2024
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[–] [email protected] 149 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (8 children)

These cars need to have a panic button that allows a remote operator to talk to the passengers, assess the situation, alert police and override the auto driving to get them out of bad situations. Same as an emergency call button on an elevator basically. I dont understand these cars to have any feature like that so far, and I'm assuming this woman would have used it if one was available, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

These cars are likely going to turn into hijack machines if they're programmed for "maximum safety" in situations where, realistically, breaking every traffic law, hitting a pedestrian or causing damage to the vehicle through dangerous terrain may be the only way out with a living passenger. The second it begins to percolate among criminals that these things are super easy to stop at the perfect location of your choosing like this, they are going to become a massive target.

Or they turn into a hearse if the passenger has a medical emergency and the car doesn't redirect while the passenger is incapacitated. They might be coherent enough to press a button, but not to open their phone, navigate the app, call for help or redirect the car to a hospital...

But that of course requires labor so it will not happen until legally mandated after a minimum threshold of people die.

[–] [email protected] 132 points 1 month ago (1 children)

“The men came over to the car again and stood in front of it for a few minutes. Finally when they left, the car was still stalled but I clicked the ‘in car support’ on the screen and they seemed to be aware of the issue,” Amina said. “They asked if I was OK and the car began to drive towards my location. They asked if I needed police support and I said no.”

When she was almost to her destination, Waymo support called her again to ask if she was ok, she said. “I assured him that I was fine and he told me I would be given a free ride after,” she said. “After many hours I was called one last time by their support team. They asked if I was OK and told me that they have 24/7 support available. They also said I would get the next ride or next two rides (uncertain) free.”

"In an instance like this, our riders have 24/7 access to Rider Support agents who will help them navigate the situation in real time and coordinate closely with law enforcement officers to provide further assistance as needed," a spokesperson for Waymo told 404 Media in an email. "While these sorts of events are exceedingly rare among the 100,000 trips we serve a week across Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Phoenix, we take them very seriously. We continuously look for ways to improve rider experience and remain committed to improving road safety and mobility in the cities where we operate."

[–] [email protected] 138 points 1 month ago (7 children)

they should have [thing that already exists]

Nobody reads the article though...

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 month ago

Agreed, but to play devil's advocate, the support wasn't branded as such and customers could've not reported out of shame, which wouldn't happen if they knew they could do that at the beginning before it became anything substantial.

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[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 month ago (3 children)

override the auto driving

I must be tired right now but I don't see how a remote operator could have driven better in this situation.

You can't get away from someone blocking your car in traffic without risk.of hitting them or other people or vehicles.

You probably meant they ought to drive away regardless of what they hit, if it helps the passenger escape a.dire.situation? But I have to wonder if a remote operator would agree to be put on the spot like that.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 month ago (5 children)

Yea I'm not too keen on giving authorization to hit pedestrians. If I feel threatened in my car, I am not allowed to run over the person so why should a driverless car gain that right? And if the panic button is going to call the police, how is that any different from the passenger using their phone to contact police? Seems like extra steps of middlemen and confusion when the passenger could just call once they feel the need.

I could defintely see a case for some extra safety features that help keep the doors locked and shut, maybe thicker windows too if needed to prevent robberies/assaults.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 month ago (6 children)

If I feel threatened in my car, I am not allowed to run over the person

You are not allowed to run people over merely because you feel threatened.

You are allowed to use deadly force, in the USA when you reasonably believe that it is necessary to prevent someone from unlawfully killing, causing serious physical injury, or committing a short list of violent felonies. The harassment described in the article probably does not rise to that level, though an ambitious lawyer might try to describe intentionally causing the car to stop as carjacking or kidnapping.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The "hitting pedestrians" is an extreme hypothetical, and not one you should particularly get hung up on. But it is one that still has to be considered. Passive security measures only go so far for the passenger.

Realistically, a car can get out of a vast majority of situations evasively without hitting hostile pedestrians, such as reversing rapidly and then turning around or driving in an opposite travel lane to bypass the blockage. Or hopping a curb and using a sidewalk if it is not occupied (or just blasting the shit out of the horn if it is occupied). These are all things that waymo's auto mode cannot and will not do, because it doesn't have the reasoning to understand when such measures are necessary.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I can't think of a NY cab driver that couldn't have handled this situation.

This guy isn't doing fedoras any favors either - I'm already a bit on the skeptical side when I see a fedora.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

If a man jumps out in front of my car in traffic and points a pistol at me after I stop. I am going around or thru him and there is no other option. Anyone else trying to stop me even without visible weapons is going to get evasive maneuvers to protect myself because I am not dealing with that bullshit. That includes weaving far outside my travel lane or going over a sidewalk. That is self defense and a split second decision that any driver may have to make. Waymo prioritizes all outside obstacle avoidance which means it doesn't even want to leave it's set travel lane, which makes them trivial to stop like this with no recourse.

The point I am making is that self driving has a really hard time interpreting traffic edge cases or passenger emergencies like this. A remote operator could make the decision to drive over curbs and other lanes, if free, to save the passenger, and realistically should avoid hitting pedestrians too... but in the case of an armed attacker - well, yknow. Like force for like force.

Calling police would only be an auxiliary function to report the video evidence. They cannot be depended on to respond in time to actually make a difference.

Would a remote operator interpret things accurately in 10 seconds or less, or be a job anyone would even want? How does the liability chain of command work? Who knows. But the current system makes no decision at all, and that is unacceptable. And the medical point still stands too, a remote operator could immediately reroute the vehicle to a hospital and alert the medical staff. A panic button is absolutely needed.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 month ago

What are you going on about? Have you ever ridden in one of these?

They do have these buttons...

https://support.google.com/waymo/answer/9172373?hl=en

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It sounds like Waymo were already aware of the situation, in fact they called her in the vehicle as it was happening.

Not to say this isn't a good suggestion, but they seem to have other systems in place that worked.

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[–] [email protected] 73 points 1 month ago (9 children)
[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 month ago

The official hat of “females always pick the chads, even though I dress better than all these normies!”

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Technically correct, the best kind of correct!

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[–] [email protected] 71 points 1 month ago (5 children)

Waymo should provide a loaded shotgun in every car. It's America, after all.

/s

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Make it AI controlled for good measure

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[–] [email protected] 61 points 1 month ago (143 children)

I can see criminals easily exploiting this default behavior to stop the car and steal from those inside.

Where's a Johnny cab when you need it, it knows how to deal with criminals.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 month ago (6 children)

I doubt choosing to stick up a vehicle covered in cameras with someone who likely isn't even carrying cash is anyone's idea of a good payoff.

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[–] [email protected] 55 points 1 month ago (1 children)

One of the men repeatedly made a “call me” gesture with his hand, then took his fedora off and literally tipped it at her...

It's assholes like this that make dudes in fedoras look bad. This and -you know- the hats themselves.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Fedoras are cool. That's a trilby, the classic neckbeard topper.

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[–] [email protected] 39 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

I'd expect the Waymo video to have captured footage of these guys. It might not be that difficult to track them, and street harassment might well qualify as assault if the DA of San Francisco were interested in prosecuting.

That said, it's telling that they freely and openly harassed a strange woman on the street once the threat of being run over was not a factor.

ETA: One short-term workaround is to tint the windows so that passengers cannot be seen from the outside, but there might be causes to harass occupied Waymo vehicles regardless of the passenger (say, to mug them). I'm curious if this is going to lead to equipping autonomous vehicles with anti-riot ordnance.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Delamin Cabs vibe over here, hope people get the Excelsior package

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 month ago

I love how he looks like 2 different types of douchebags when he takes his hat off!

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Doing things like this when you're certainly being recorded is a great idea. Wait, hold on...

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (8 children)

They are quite lucky that woman was not my mother because she'd have pulled out her gun and been like, I told you to move, damnit.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 month ago (1 children)

What part of Texas is she from?

[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 month ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago

This is how you get shot for the silliest of reasons.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Okay, this really seems more like a case of sexual harassment, rather than harassment of Waymo customers, which was my first suspicion. Had it been the latter as part of a politically motivated action against the company I might have had a lot more sympathy, but this is disgusting…

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 month ago (4 children)

You saw the fedora and thought it was anything but sexual harassment? LMAO

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The fedora tipping is too funny, seeing it from outside the situation, but she certainly was very scared because it's such a bizarre event.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I have to admit, I expected a lot worse from the style of writing. This was written like some true crime stuff lol

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 month ago

Some nasty jerks they are. Well now internationally famous nasty jerks.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Just last week I had to run over some mother fuckers

It do be like that sometimes

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