Glove 80 keyboard:
There's also a wide world of alt letter layouts.
this post was submitted on 18 Sep 2024
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I would really love to try something like that, but I don't want to sink money into it just to realize I hate it.
Edit: 400$ for the Glove 80. As much as I love the idea, that's a no for me
The best way to "try before you buy" is to go to keyboard meetups in your area if they're available. Unfortunately, that does leave a lot of folks out, but if you live in a city that will probably be your best bet.
Got a split keyboard (ergodox ez) just to notice that all the special keys are very tough to reach and there are no F-keys. All in all not such a great experience. The split part is good though if you type a loooot anf if you have wrist rests.
I'm not sure I understand. I have an ergodox moonlander and while it's true there is no dedicated button for Function keys, that's what the layers are for. It's kind of the point of a configurable customizable keyboard.
So for me I have all my special symbols under my left hand while my right hand holds a special key. Takes some getting used to, but once I had practiced the special keys are actually closer than before because they're all the normal keys. Similarly I have arrow keys under the keys labeled 'hjkl' when another key is held. My Function Keys are all accessible with special key and the number keys.
It takes some tweaking and tuning to figure out the layouts you want, but the whole point of a keyboard like this is that you can tune it to be whatever you need it to be. Now, if you don't like to tinker and just want something out of the box, I get that, but even the default config has function keys, I think. Maybe you just didn't read about how it works?
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I love my Glove80, had it for about a year now and couldn't be happier.
For anyone interested in alt layouts, https://getreuer.info/posts/keyboards/alt-layouts/index.html is one of the best introductions out there. Also https://lemmy.world/c/ergomechkeyboards is a nice resource on fancy keyboards.
I hate it because I love the way it looks, but I could never use one.
I can't use a split keyboard because of the way I've taught myself to touch-type. My fingers move around too much. On the other hand, I type around ~90 wpm (mostly using two fingers) so I win something or other.
Big hands crew represent
You can re-teach yourself.
Touch typing is like learning different languages. Just because you learn a new one doesn't mean you forget the first.
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I had the same problem, and never cracked touch typing, because my brain kept going back to the old, faster way.
I finally cracked it by learning a different layout while only touch typing. Maybe that's a way to go if you want to get there?
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This is what I use every day
That's a columnar stagger, not ortholinear.
I was kinda disappointed that this article didn't explain columnar stagger.
I daily drive an iris by keebio.
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Is that your own layout, or is it a scheme like QWERTY or DVORAK that I haven't heard about?
Colemak is an alternative keyboard created by Shai Coleman, named as a portmanteau of Dvorak and Coleman. Its design goals consist of easy transition from QWERTY due to repositioning only 17 letter keys. Additionally the AZXCV shortcuts are in the same location perhaps allowing an easier time switching from QWERTY.
It also claims greater efficiency than Dvorak. Furthermore it places complete emphasis on the home-row: the ten most-common characters in English are on the ten home-row keys.
Source: Wikipedia
I type in dvorak and actually love it. It just feels comfortable when I type.
Fellow Dvorak user here. Can't recommend it enough.
In one of my classes at the beginning of my doctoral studies we talked about parth dependency, and QWERTY was used as an example. All studies showed that even experienced typists would increase their typing speed within just a few days of switching, and that it's just a superior set-up. But because of path dependency we all write QWERTY.
I changed my layout the same day and I haven't looked back. If you want to start messing around with your keyboard and you use it for typing, switching to Dvorak should be the obvious first step. Colemak is a compromise solution that is still a lot better than QWERTY and probably quicker to learn.
No need to get a new keyboard. Dvorak is designed around touch typing, you won't be looking at the keyboard anyway.
Oh my gosh, there's a whole two of us! 🥲
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This is something I would consider using. I've had issues in the past with tendonitis and I don't want that issue to get worse.
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Prefer column staggered, but yes they really make you wonder how we got stuck with the dominant keyboard configurations. Typing with linear columns feels way more natural.
Typewriters.
They had bars that needed to physically move, and so staggering them helped them not collide and get jammed.
If you imagine a bar coming from the center of each key towards your screen, you can see how the staggering was helpful. For instance, M misses J and K above it, naturally, but it also slightly misses I and the 8 above that.
It's a great solution for a nonexistent problem in keyboards.
It probably really helped people who learned to type on a typewriter make the first changeovers, and now it's what everybody learns to type on for the most part so it hasn't budged. I've noticed at work that my gen z coworkers often struggle to type out a solid nursing note (most of them learned to type on a phone screen) so I wonder if this is maybe an opportunity for more of those alternative layouts to start taking hold as typing becomes a less common thing people need to learn early on.
Wasn't the whole idea to minimize the amount of times your typewriter seized up? Happened often enough with QWERTY keyboards when it came to the cheap typewriters. Yes, I'm old.
That is why the letters are all in a funny order, but that's not why the keys were staggered. They were staggered because of the mechanical linkages underneath the keys, so the linkages could be made straight rather than having to bend around other keys in the way.
I have a split ortholinear keyboard that I made with parts from Keebio, I fucking love it. It has really reduced wrist strain for me.
It's the Levinson Rev. 3, which is relatively cheap (this is an expensive hobby just FYI) if you want to get into keyboards.
Edit: Levinson Rev. 3 was discontinued but the BFO-9000 is still a good option for a no-frills dip into things.
(this is an expensive hobby just FYI)
Yeah custom keyboards get absurdly expensive very quickly.
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I'm of the firm opinion that the best keyboard layout and type is the one you feel most comfortable with.
But then I'm also of that opinion when it comes to things like desktop OSes, phone brands, etc.
It's not a popular opinion.
Unfortunately what you are most comfortable could also cause repetitive stress injury like carpal tunnel. I have a brother in law who damaged his nerves because a Macplus keyboard felt best to him.
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That sometimes works, but sometimes the right way is not immediately comfortable so people so stuff that seems right and hurt themselves. Sometimes the thing that seemed correct initially was only because of a lack of deeper understanding and an ignorance of the knowledge of those who have already made the mistakes.
I dance, play instruments, drive cars, and do a whole lot of other things where the immediately comfortable thing is so often one of the best ways to develop a massively limiting habit that is a huge pain to get away from once you realize how badly it’s holding you back.
It’s a case-by-case basis, of course, but simply “the best is what you’re most comfortable with” does not have near the nuance it needs to not be abused. It is great advice for people once they have built up a strong base of knowledge, and until then they need to get over it and try things.
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I just received my 4x12 keyboard 4 days ago! While there has been a steep learning curve and I took a huge hit on my typing speed, I really enjoy using it. I was a bit hesitant to spend much $$$ on something I wasn't sure about, so I decided that if I didn't like it that I could just use it as a macropad or use it in place of my dying Logitech G13 gaming pad. So far, I've been carrying it between work and home and using it for everything. If all goes well, this will be my main and only keyboard.
It's a CSTC40 that I bought from aliexpress. Unfortunately, it looks like they stopped selling it after I received mine (lucky me!). This unit seems to get shit on by mechanical keyboard enthusiasts, but I love it because it was cheap ($70CDN shipped) and didn't require soldering. I happened to have a set of keycaps that I've made work for this keyboard. I don't really look down when I'm typing, so I don't really care that some of the legends don't make sense.
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Ergodox EZ has my whole hearted recommendation. Their keyboards are amazing and the only thing better for ergonomics would be a more custom curved piece.
They're a good company, I would recommend anyone checking them out.
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It doesn't get better than this though https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/charachorder/the-master-forge-a-keyboard-built-for-you
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Are there full-size ortho keyboards?
Short answer: Yes. ID75 or XD75 pack in a full set of keys in 80% case. Some are pretty ridiculous - BFO-9000 or FU!Keyboard
Long answer: most orthos are designed so that you can hold layer shift keys with your thumbs(RSE, LWR for Raise and Lower) to type other keys(e.g. Lower+J types “-“ and Raise+J types “_”). This way you type the keys of a full layout without moving your hands off home row and with less keys overall.
I don't know of anything marketed as such, though some ortholinear POS terminals can be easily repurposed into big keyboards. The ortho users tend to be very interested in ergonomics, and one of the guiding principles there is minimizing hand movement (sometimes I personally think this goes a bit far; it seems to me that if it's good to move the rest of your body from time to time, it's good to move your arms and hands too). Most of them are quite small. The biggest size I've seen regularly is 75 keys in a 15x5 grid. Of course, ortho/ergo is also a very DIY-friendly space, so sometimes you see... outliers. LOL.
...hey, that's just like my library's old PET 2001, my first computer!..
The devil's creation.
Orthos are far superior to staggered keyboards. No finger is bigger than 1U and you don’t have to twist or move your hands.
Strongly disagree on the not twisting part. You need a split keyboard to get the proper wrist angle
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I have a planck at work and a preonic at home. It takes some time to get used to but now that I have switched I will never go back. I might try something split like a corne next but I'm kind of waiting for something that matches my olkb boards a bit better. Ortholinear would be the new standard if I had my way. I'm also eyeing that MNT Reform pocket pretty hard for that awesome keyboard but I really want them to release a tactile switch option for it.
I want to try it but I'm worried that I'll get too frustrated and then have (another) expensive keyboard that I don't use.
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Tried a Typematrix. At the time, I was a roving freelancer who frequently worked with other people at their machines, so I decided that it was safer to stick with a conventional layout.
Having Enter on the thumb was interesting, but I never got used to it.
They're dope. Everything being the same size (1u) is fun. I've only ever typed on one though. I have 4 custom keyboards and none of them are orthos.
I have an ortho I made, and I just couldn't get used to it. I've never had any keyboard-related RSI, and my "spider dance" typing is very much a hand-eye coordination task, so... ehhh. No neuroplasticity for it.
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