...We've committed a multi-thousand year long genocide against dogs, breeding them for traits that we find useful, and usually killing the puppies that don't possess useful traits...
this post was submitted on 31 Jul 2024
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So... We've treated them as equals for millennia? That tracks.
We did this with women too. We deserve women. /s
Awww, it can hardly breathe. Look how cute and helpless it is!
Maltese covered in tumors at 8 years old? That's totally normal. Just like the cancer it inevitably will develop.
Meanwhile feral dog breeds can live up to 17 years just like wild wolves do. Though in the wild, the average lifespan is 5 years. Because of disease or injury.
I love my healthy mutt.
That's not genocide, that's eugenics. Just as bad.
Eugenics is not inherently bad, it's just frequently used as an excuse to do really evil shit.
There's personal and systemic eugenics. Systemic eugenics will always be bad.
Personal... Well, you're not obligated to have children you don't want either.
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That last part may need a bit of citation, but yes modern breed standardization has unfortunately crippled many of the poor creatures from birth.
Adopt rescues, people! It's usually super cheap and they're almost always healthier dogs anyway.
I presume you meant to prepend these citations with your own summation, something along the lines of: "It's a spectrum, not a point", etc al?
This might be my favorite rage bait of all time. Lol
I mean, it's also true, so is it really bait then?
Only in very broad strokes.
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Its the cats that we don't deserve.
They just happen, they adopt us, use us as slaves, indoctrinate us in a cat worshipping cult, ...
Cats are ancient aliens. That's why Egyptians worshipped them, that's why their pee glows and why their scratches and bites are so toxic. They're not of this earth. Don't trust them! They're trying to take over and they're being allowed to win!!
If wishing for an alien feline overlord is wrong, I don't want to be right!
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Oh noooo, it's too late!!
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If you leave out the fact that we also breed them till their eyes pop out of their sockets, their brains don't fit in their skulls, they are in constant fear of suffocating. Then yes
They're either this or well built, intelligent, and filled anxiety over the impending collapse of the galaxy into a black hole. "What was that?! A small tear in the fabric of the space time continuum? Demons? Maybe the cat next door is finally going to murder all of us! Ok, probably not. But maybe I should bark at whatever it is just in case. "
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Those "monsters" from the dark were the real heroes back when — braving the orange flickering light that instinctually meant death to sneak scraps from the stabby skin-wearers... Sounds like the original D&D story to me, NGL.
domesticating wolves by campfire with just body language would be a bad ass RPG VR game
Or from the wolf's perspective as dlc: Domesticate the skin-walker
That's what cats've done, TBF. They even taught themselves to sound like our babies! Not to mention, contracted a bio-parasite to further tilt our civilization to their whims...
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I mean, that's what we want to believe, that it all started with someone feeding a hungry wolf, but knowing humanity it's just as possible it started with a captured wolf and copious amounts of animal abuse.
It's most likely that dogs/wolves just kept eating our waste, staying close to us, and after initial fights humans noticed the dogs/wolves are not being a threat, thus letting them do their thing and observing them.
Then humans eventually figured out that by observing dogs and their reactions, they could see if dogs smelled/heard something which they couldn't. And then started to exploit that.
wolves just kept eating our waste
You may wanna edit this to say trash, it sounds like you're saying wolves followed us around eating our shit, which afaik isn't a theory for dog domestication.
Technically garbage rather than trash, if we're being pedantic
I always thought us up here in America's hat called it garbage, and those guys down in Canada's shorts called it trash.
I'm 31 and just googled the difference. Ohh fiuuuuuuuuuuck!
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Wow, this is the least fun group on the internet. These comments...
Yikes, you're right. Should've skipped. Fuckin hell guys
The more I browse lemmy the more it feels true
But then what about, say, cows? They were domesticated too, but to the extent that they subjectively like and trust humans (and I've seen very friendly cows) they have been deceived, with very few exceptions. Maybe we deserve them in the purely material sense since they are the products of our labor, but they don't deserve us...
Perhaps not individually - although even there, what is the average lifespan of a cow in the wild? - but collectively there have been far more cow offspring than there would have been if they had not been domesticated.
Also, looking at every other wild species that we've eradicated, they seem to have decided to get in on our good side, which since they aren't extinct may have worked out well for them.
And even individually, if they live >3x longer, in a more comfortable environment where food is provided routinely... it's arguably not as bad a trade-off as it first appears.
A lifetime of slavery ending in death, or try to outcompete the species that invented guns? We might each make a different choice, but they made theirs.
I have heard that argument for animal husbandry, but in today's world the comfortable environment is provided to only a tiny fraction of livestock. If I had the choice to either be a random pig or chicken nowadays, or just nothingness, I rather not exist at all. What's the point of living 3 times longer when you hardly have enough space to even turn around and stand in your own shit? If anything, the longer life span makes it worse.
Cow: I want my species to thrive in number!
monkey's paw finger curls
Damn... good point.
I was even all set to argue back with like: each individual cow makes their own choice, as in the ones who fight back against the system get killed, whereas those who simply accept it as-is continue to exist, leading us to today where those who are left are those who are genetically predisposed to not fight (but theoretically, they could still fight back?). And that even before we delved into direct genetic manipulation, to increase the meat-to-effort ratio. Maybe one day we'll design cows that just walk directly into our mouths and beg us to chew them?
So humans in essence foundationally altered what a "cow" even is - like imagine a wild boar that humans actually feared, vs. today's mere "pigs". What is left is a shadow of the former glory that the true bovine herbivore ruminant was in its prime heyday. i.e. nobody alive to today has ever seen a true "cow" (unless like boars there is some wild variant somewhere, not descendants of some escapee but a truly untouched species?).
That's all on us. As people elsewhere are saying, we treat cows almost as bad as we treat humans beings.
Perhaps that is why shows like The Matrix are so horrifying - it's what we would do (/ are already doing), if the situation were reversed.
Hey, it's great you contemplated my point this much, I do not expect this when arguing online :) While I would prefer there to be less animal suffering, I don't think demand for meat is going away anytime soon, but I think it is realistic for lab grown meat to replace actually raising the entire cow in the not too distant future, making this discussion finally obsolete. In the sequel to Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy there are actually some form of livestock that actively want to be eaten and even recommend which parts of them are most delicious. The Matrix comparison is great as well, I did not think of that yet.
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*Alien ship arrives into orbit. It's powerful energy weapons aimed at major population centers.*
Alien Ship: "Attention experiment 2648.996. It has been 50,000 orbits since your last status report. Name one good thing you have accomplished since we allowed you free reign over this planet."
*Humans hold their beloved dogs as they look up in fear. Dogs lovingly lick their humans.*
Alien Ship: "Well done 2648.996. Well done."
all you need to know is that dogs are fluffye! no need to look at the other comments :)!
More like we were kind to the helpless pups that were left over after we slaughtered the adults. Unless we were hungry, of course.
It would be very difficult to keep that population stable, especially if one is starting from scratch and knows nothing about breeding dogs.
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