this post was submitted on 31 Jul 2024

144 points (99.3% liked)

Europe

1679 readers

221 users here now

News and information from Europe 🇪🇺

(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)

Rules (2024-08-30)

This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism.
Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in [email protected]. (They're cool, you should subscribe there too!)
Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)

(This list may get expanded when necessary.)

We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.

If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.

If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the mods: @[email protected], @[email protected], or @[email protected].

founded 6 months ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

anzo

144

Lithuania turns to European Commission after Hungary eases entry conditions for Russians (www.lrt.lt)

submitted 5 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

30 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Earlier this month, Hungary announced a new facilitated visa scheme under which citizens of eight countries, including Russia and Belarus, can enter Hungary without security checks or other restrictions. Budapest claims that many of those entering under this scheme will be building a nuclear power plant.

“We are unpleasantly surprised by media reports that Hungary has included Russian and Belarusian citizens in its national immigration programme, which will allow them to enter and move freely within the Schengen area,” Lithuania’s Foreign Minister Gabrielius Landsbergis said in a written statement.

“In Lithuania’s view, Hungary’s decision poses very serious threats to the security of the Schengen area and many European countries, and must therefore be responded to at the EU level,” the Lithuanian foreign minister said.

The minister believes that Hungary’s decision requires a separate assessment at a time when European countries are facing an increasing number of acts of sabotage, which this reinforces the urgency of finding an adequate response to such a stance by one member state.

all 32 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] [email protected] 54 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Kick them out of Schengen and block the borders. That should make them rethink their position fairly swiftly.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 5 months ago

Internal borders to Hungary closing just a few months into Orbán's presidency would be a brilliant and appropriate response.

Fuck around and find out, as they say.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Oh well we would probably have to kick Slovakia out too.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago

Let's just say: blocking Hungary will have a very "educating" effect on others..

[–] [email protected] 31 points 5 months ago (1 children)

How difficult would it be to kick Hungary out of the union? They don't deserve to be in it anymore. Let them make their bed with Russia but without EU funds.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

AfaIk, it's impossible to kick it out of EU. However, it is possible to suspend it's membership using article 7 of EU treaty in case of severe violation of human rights.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago

How about Schengen, though? Is there a mechanism for permanently expelling a member from that? Or do we have to permanently close their borders temporarily?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago

...which suspend their voting rights. While those rights are suspended, change the treaties so that it takes at least 3 members to veto any action of the EU.

[+] [email protected] -19 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Under EU rules, national governments have the right to decide on legal migration and work permits.

I don‘t see the problem here then.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I don‘t see the problem here then.

They can decide whatever they want. They just have to live with the consequences. We don't want easy entry for Russian and Belarusian citizens (which is, in turn, our right). So if you want to allow these citizens free access to your country, fine. But don't expect us to then also grant you free access to ours.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

The problem here is apparently Orban, just read the full article. That aside, I fully support @Quittenbrot's response in this thread ('Kick them out of Schengen and block the borders').

Edit: @Successful_Try543 also has a good proposal imo ('suspend it’s membership using article 7 of EU treaty in case of severe violation of human rights').

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

I don't think, granting people easy visa rights that shouldn't get them for good security reasons can be considered a severe violation of human rights though.

While the human rights situation in Hungary is also getting worse, i also doubt it to qualify as "severe" yet. At least so far none of the other EU countries have used that as a formal reason and Germany was happy to deport a queer antifascist to Hungary just a few weeks back, for allegedly having attacked Nazis there. This definetly should not have had happened, but goes to show how far away from calling Hungary out on human rights violations we still are.

Problem with border patrols though is that they don't work against Schengen visas anyways afaik. If you are a legal resident in one EU country, you can travel inside the Schengen area.

[+] [email protected] -22 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

? I obviously read the article, the quote is part of what you omitted from it. And then, you say the problem is Orban? What kind of nonsensical answer is that? Some think his policies are, and this specific policy might be debatable. How about that?

Edit: If the EU will claim Hungary is severely violating human rights by allowing people to cross its border, my faith in this project will be at its end.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Could you explain your position? Are you not against Russians entering EU/Schengen? Or are you against the methods used?

[+] [email protected] -10 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I am not against Russians entering the EU. In contrast to many German politicians who were talking about offering Russians asylum after the war had started but never implemented these promises. The article implies Russians entering Europe would cause sabotage and what not, claiming previous sabotage as evidence. That doesn‘t make much sense. Denying Russians entry to the EU rather pushes them to an anti EU and pro Putin stance. I think this is a mistake.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Do you think we should be able to control who is coming from Russia into the EU?

[+] [email protected] -10 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Overall a difficult question. But I do know how hard it is to get a Schengen Visa for a Russian citizen, contrary to what the article implies. And I am pretty sure the Hungarians won‘t just wave them in now. There‘s definitely a lot of control over who‘s coming to the EU. And I am pretty sure this won‘t decrease.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

There‘s definitely a lot of control over who‘s coming to the EU. And I am pretty sure this won‘t decrease.

How will it not decrease when Hungary abolished measures to control?

Do you acknowledge that it is in Russian interest to weaken the EU?

[+] [email protected] -7 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Yes I am sure it is in Putin‘s interest to weaken the EU. But I think in this conflict with Orban the EU is weakening itself a lot more than Putin or Orban could ever do. By fracturing the EU. Freaking out over Russian Visas for example.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

How do you suggest EU deals with Orban while he is actively trying to ignore the rest of the leaders of member states?

[–] [email protected] -2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Trying to remain calm and focused. Not freaking out when he‘s going to Putin and Xi and claiming he pretended to go on the EU‘s behalf. Not pulling stunts like sending minor officials to Hungary‘s EU meetings.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

But that's not an action. That's inaction. I mean, what needs to be done to stop him from actively compromising EU interests? Letting him do whatever he wants doesn't sound like an effective strategy.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 4 months ago

True. Of course there would be the option of changing the EU unanimous voting system, so disagreeing member states wouldn‘t be able to block the whole Union. But small member states don‘t want to give up those veto options. In the case of Poland the EU has initiated article 7 that would have suspended its voting rights (relevant because of Poland‘s precious fascist government), but that hasn‘t materialised since 2017 and now there‘s a new government. So it isn‘t easy. But the commission not attending meetings and such feels like ceding control to me.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

By fracturing the EU.

Who is fracturing the EU? The one person working with Russia and against EU wherever he can or the other 20 something that have a more or less unified position?

[–] [email protected] -2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I think the awkward moves of the commission to ostracise Hungary by not attending its meetings and trying to subvert its council presidency did cause some consternation in other states of the EU as well. Accusing him of pretending to visit Russia and China on behalf of the EU was pretty laughable, too, because everybody knew he wasn‘t. I am really not a fan of Orban, but this doesn‘t make the EU look good or strong.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago

Would you consider Orban isolated in Europe concerning his position towards Russia, compared to other EU governments?

Would you say Orban is trying hard to cooperate with the rest of the EU?

[–] Gsus4 13 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I agree, every country neighbouring Hungary can reestablish the border controls and keep russian "tourists" or chinese "policemen" out if they want too, this isn't hard.