"Are EVs only for 80+ percent of the population?"
this post was submitted on 28 Jul 2024
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No, because a lot of city people live in places where they can't charge cars, and--at least in Canada where we kiss the boots of landlords--no one's forcing charging infrastructure multi-unit dwellings.
Electric cars aren't for city dwellers, they're for suburban homeowners.
Most, if not all, of the new apartment complexes in my area heavily advertise they have EV charging on site. Problem is they usually only install 1 or 2 chargers for a complex that has parking for 50-100 cars. That sort of ratio is fine anywhere else, but it's not a reliable option if you and your neighbours (who were also sold by that promise) all need to get to work in the morning.
Yeah, honestly the infrastructure is the most of the problem. Even in crazy cold, battery life drops but doesn't disappear.
How often do you have to refill your gas tank? If it's damn near daily, then your ability to rely on an EV is going to be much more limited than if it's closer to once or twice a week.
If you have an outlet at home that can be used to charge an EV, and you don't regularly drive hundreds of miles in a day, an EV is likely a viable replacement for an ICE car. If you do make long distance trips regularly enough for that to be a concern, you will probably be more dependent on the availability of charging infrastructure in your area.
But on the flip side, if you're rarely filling your tank because you drive so little, does an EV really make a lot of sense? The people who will see the biggest impact (financially and environmentally) are the ones who use most of their EV's range every day.
Nha, city dwellers could use bicycles most of the times
Or the electrified transit we should be building
Bus driver here. Our transit commission finally got it's first EV bus to start the transition to the electric system! But we still need to build the charging stations for it and other EVs to use, not to mention the bureaucracy and other normalities that go in certifying any vehicle for the road, plus our one garage did kinda burn down, so that has set things back a wee bit...
It's coming, but do expect it to take a long-ass time.
Trams dont need charging stations. We need more trams. We had them 100 years ago we could do so much better today
Too, yes. Under 10kms all can and will be bike with good infrastructure. Anything beyond that can be public transportation, again, with good infrastructure
I meant my statement to be inclusive with cycling.
We also need localized transit because some people are unable to cycle. Some people may also refuse to cycle in some weather. Some people also work labour jobs and don't really want the extra exercise on their commute.
I'm not proposing banning cars or other forms of transportation altogether either. I do propose that we severely restrict (in comparison to today) car traffic. Make it more expensive, make the roads to take longer than by bike, push it all where possible out of city centers.
I'm not proposing banning cars or other forms of transportation altogether either. I do propose that we severely restrict (in comparison to today) car traffic. Make it more expensive, make the roads to take longer than by bike, push it all where possible out of city centers.
Cars aren't accessible to everyone either. A blind person cannot drive a car and probably can't commute on a bike, but they may be able to take transit.
If we want car free city centers, we need transit.
Oh absolutely! I sometimes forget to mention public transportation, but yeah... < 2kms is walkable, < 10 kms is easily doable by bike, beyond that public transport. And short range public transportation of course as well for those that can't bike, or for when it rains
I'm not proposing banning cars or other forms of transportation altogether either. I do propose that we severely restrict (in comparison to today) car traffic. Make it more expensive, make the roads to take longer than by bike, push it all where possible out of city centers.
Depends how "city" you're talking. If you're in a large core, sure, but Canadian cities are sprawling enough you really need something faster in many urban areas (like public transit).
That's why I said most of the times. Anything under 10km can easily be done by bike, especially once you get used to it.
I ride my bike to work every day and I do the ~5km on bike faster than by car, every single time
We should also address how wasteful and poorly planned our cities are
Yep. It's tough, though, since building is slow, and now that the infrastructure stretching way out is there it doesn't make much sense to abandon it. Some cities are getting rid of stupid zoning laws at least.
Maybe with todayβs batteries, but that can/should change.
There is also the whole North American train phobia.
If you can charge overnight, the convenience of EV is something you can never come back from.
Imagine getting up every morning, driving as far as you need all day, coming home, and getting up again the next day to do it againβwithout EVER hitting a gas station.
I work 50 km away. In my gas guzzler, I frequently push my luck on a low tank because I am running lateβoften because I rushed home without stopping the night before. Having to fill-up with gas gives me frequent range anxiety. It seems that I am always having to stop.
My wife has an EV. When I drive it, the most striking difference is the complete lack of having to worry about fuel. Going 250 km in a day is normal for us but day-to-day life never stresses the 400+ km range that the EV starts each day with.
The only time we have to think about charging is on trips longer than 500 km. Even then, it has never been a big deal. One time on Vancouver Island we almost had an issue and did have to stop for dinner longer than normal. The fact that this has only happened once in 3 years ( and only because we did not even bother to check if it would be a problem ) really dives home what a non-issue it is.
Which EV?
Not really as it is a more sustainable compromise between car infrastructure and cleaner transport.
You simply cant long-haul an electric reliably yet. As of right now its a great SECOND car...
How often do you "long haul"? I'd argue an EV (with all of the perks of never going to a gas station again) is a great primary car and an ICE might make a decent SECOND car if you need to drive longer distances and if the charging infrastructure in your area is lacking.
Yeah, people can and do roadtrip in EVs. If you're on a 4 hour trip a 20 minute charge is a minor inconvenience at worst, and a needed break at best.
It's also like these people have never heard of rentals.
People are not generally inclined to plan on regularly needing a rental. I'm not saying that's how it should be, but for car buyers the phrase of "I'll rent every time I have a special task" isn't a winner. It should be, if folks realistically assess how often those special tasks happen (probably rare), but that's not how buyers work. They want to be able to say "my car meets all my needs".
Again, I'm agreeing that rentals are the perfect choice, because "special tasks" are actually pretty fucking rare. It's just an uphill battle of purchasing comfortability
What exactly qualifies as long haul? Average EV range is almost 300km which is pretty damn far before you need a charge-up. I live in a small town and my PHEV only goes 40km on a charge and I still only have to charge every other day most of the time.
... in north America.
My experience in Europe where the EV infrastructure is more developed, long trip are not an issue. I don't even plan my trip, I just go and charge when I need it.
Edit, wording
Still a 8h driving day will require more charging time than gas refill time, regardless of how many chargers there are.
Acknowledged on your planning point, that's a huge improvement.
Still a 8h driving day will require more charging time than gas refill time,
Sure. Nobody disputes that.
But it's a very small percentage of the population who drives like that.
And for much of the rest of the people, an EV can be a viable option.
Right but north Americans get closer, much more regularly.
The point of my comment was to strip away any notion of region or everyday use, and only focus on energy... Density per hour driving, and the available habits of refueling via whatever source.
In the uk the woodland trust are.putting chargers into car parks so you can atop on a long drive for.a walk in the woods, it's great for those rare long journeies and can tie in with lunch perfectly.
Supermarkets and similar are doing the same so you can shop and charge at the same time. Were going to see more of this as infrastructure improves and roll out continues, rather than adding time fueling electric cars for most people will remove the need to ever make a stop just to fill up.
Totally, that's great
But I'm discussing the situation where you have 8h of pure movement to complete. Every stop is a burden. Currently fueling a gas car takes easily less than 10 minutes, and with 2 people both can use the restroom and prepare the car in 15, generously.
I'm not saying thats an every day thing. I'm just discussing the differences between ev and ice cars right now, regarding the pace of a long journey.
In my opinion, currently, the "perfect" garage would have an EV for local travel which is used regularly, and an ice car for long journeys.
The "perfect" choices, if available, would be ev in the garage, rent an ice car for long trips.
The "middle ground" I'm interested in personally is a hybrid, but I'm in no need of replacing my vehicles currently.
guess I hallucinated that trip from Seattle to Vegas and back, huh
i was sure I saw myself in the battlebots audience last season, but I guess I hallucinated that too
i must be going crazy (or you're wrong)
I never said you cant do it, but its going to suck and take forever.
I'm telling you it didn't.
What is long haul?
We have done quite a few trips over 2000 km β often with young children. Stopping for 20 - 30 minutes every 3 - 4 hours to grab a bite and hit the bathroom does not seem much of a burden. We did one last summer that included three North American countries. We did not even think about it. We just pulled out of the driveway, drove, and stopped when it made sense. Great trip.
you're the exception, not the norm. When I have to take the worktruck to BC its 12hr days stopping once for 200L. 3-4 day drive depending on the weather and borders. Simply can't do that in an electric and itll be a long time before the infrastructure is ready for it. Think thats an extreme circumstance? How about Ottawa from Toronto in 6hrs? thats a STRETCH with modern long range electrics. Quebec City, the Sue, Halifax? All one day drives with gas currently. Until that problem is solved; electric is a great city runner and not much more.