this post was submitted on 30 Mar 2024
276 points (95.1% liked)

Technology

58303 readers
10 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related content.
  3. Be excellent to each another!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

The Android developer just published an updated landing page for Google Messages, showing off key features ranging from customization, privacy and security, and, of course, AI.

On this landing page, there are different sections for each feature set, including one for RCS. As spotted by 9to5Google, if you expand this list of RCS features and scroll to the bottom, you see a section on "Coming soon on iOS: Better messaging for all." That's no surprise: We've known Apple was adopting RCS since November. However, it's the next line that brings the news: "Apple has announced it will be adopting RCS in the fall of 2024."

Of course, this does not say a lot as it is "in the fall" which is anywhere over a couple of months, and Google has tried to embarrass Apple into making moves before. I suppose, though, there is the looming court case against Apple which is anyway keeping pressure on Apple. If it were not for the US court case, I would have guessed Apple may have pulled out after the EU had ruled Apple was not a dominant player in the market (although the EU case was looking more at interoperability with WhatsApp and others in Apple Messages).

Of course, with Apple actually including RCS now, they can probably argue that there is interoperability via RCS between their platform and Android too. It must be remembered that in many countries, like mine, SMS's are paid for so are very expensive to use for any form of chatting, and the costs go up exponentially when you text an international number.

I personally have quite a few issues with interoperability with Apple:

  • I still have AirTags from when I had an iPhone and I daily get the audio beeps warning me the AirTags are not connected (I use an Android phone and alternate between an iPad and an Android tablet)
  • I can't wait to sell my AirTags and get the new one's Google was working on that will interoperate with Apple, but supposedly Apple has been delaying building in that support into their devices (which Google already built into Android for AirTags in 2023)
  • Because I was on Apple Messages and my iPad still sometimes connects, I find a message on my iPad that arrived a week ago which I had not seen (I had Beeper which was solving this problem)

Apple is not at all dominant outside the USA, but it makes interacting with Apple users quite a pain, as Apple has gone out of their way to try to keep their users inside the walled garden.

See https://lifehacker.com/tech/google-just-revealed-when-apple-will-officially-adopt-rcs

#technology #RCS #Apple #interoperability

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 74 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (8 children)

Watch them be pee-yellow bubbles or something, but still not blue, lol.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

Honestly they shouldn’t be blue. I don’t say this out of some kind of elitism, I just mean that the different colored chat bubbles are what currently tell you whether you’re using Apple’s E2EE chat function or plain text SMS. RCS would also support encryption, but currently Apple allows you to opt into tighter security controls that hide your iMessage encryption keys even from Apple when your messages are backed up. Your RCS chat partner opens half of the encrypted end to Google’s security policies which you won’t have any control over. So knowing that I’m using RCS when messaging somebody is something I’d want to be aware of.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago

I’d assume they’d just be green

Apple hasn’t agreed to implement RCS encryption, but maybe they will anyway

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago

Right, consider the case of iMessages being green. If you have an iMessage chat with blue bubbles, but try to text from an area with poor reception, it can fail over to SMS. With this scenario, it’s pretty clear why you still want green bubbles to tell you the chat is degraded

[–] [email protected] 14 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Maybe teal or cyan (green + blue) 😉

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Or maybe they could just allow users to change the colors of their bubbles as a UI preference option.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Probably too complicated. Just not allowing certain settings for that reason is a very Apple thing to do.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

But what if someone accidentally changes the bubble and text colors to an unreadable combination? No. We must protect our users from this obscene nonsense.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

I hate that so much but you're probably right 😅

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

RCS will replace SMS/MMS, not iMessage. Whether it's encrypted or not, Apple will still regard it as being a tier beneath their own solution. So green is the new green.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

I don’t mind the different color. Since SMS or RCS can cost money depending on where you are and which contract you have it’s an important information for me if I’m not using iMessage.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

Don't give them ideas

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Light gray bubbles, white text

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 45 points 7 months ago (5 children)

modern features like E2EE

This is false. E2EE is not part of the spec. It's just a feature of Google's implementation, which Apple will absolutely not be using.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 7 months ago

Incorrect. They’re working with the GSMA on a universal E2EE protocol. They mentioned that we should not expect E2EE in the first release of RCS on iOS.

It’s coming, but since they don’t want the proprietary thing Google has, and they want a standard, it’s coming later.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I read about Apple looking to bring the spec up to par, but I suspect it has a higher chance of being a nothing-burger since carriers haven’t bothered with RCS and Google’s implementation is as controlled/proprietary as iMessage so it will be interesting to see how things go forward.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

Apple and others have complained that Google was gatekeeping the RCS encryption plugin, and that it needed to be an open standard. Both Apple and Google are now contributing to and open encryption standard now, which should benefit lots of messaging clients.

That said, the PR folks said late last year that we should not expect encrypted RCS on iOS with release 1 of iOS RCS.

Google’s website is not incorrect. It’s just missing nuance and dates.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] brian 32 points 7 months ago (3 children)

it's ironic with all this that Google fi messages on Android still doesn't support rcs without losing a bunch of other features

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago (1 children)

What messaging app are you using, because I've been using RCS messaging for the past 5 years on Fi.

[–] brian 8 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Google messages. Here is the support article on the tradeoffs: https://support.google.com/fi/answer/6188337

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

That is using messaging for the web through Google Fi. But there is little reason to do that now as Google messages the app itself can be used through messages.google.com. there are several stand alone computer applications that use the portal as well (messages in the windows store, messages or google-messages package in most distros. Dunno about Mac. Either way, instead of fi being the backend, the app connects directly to your PC. You just have to pair your phone using the app directly.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago

Also Google Voice doesn't support RCS at all.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

Better yet - Android refuse to support RCS natively in the operaring system itself like it does with SMS since Android ~10.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

Yeah, I am not using it until it comes to google free android. How is it "better messaging for all" when you are forced to use google's proprietary implementation on android?!

Just keep using signal.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago (6 children)

The "better" though is over plain text SMS message which we have to pay per message. I use Signal but less than a handful of friends use it so it does not help me much on that front.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

What are your other contacts using? They can't be stuck sending SMS and paying per message surely?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

They're mostly using WhatsApp and I deleted all Meta-owned apps. So, yes if they want to reach me they need to send a text message as most apart from 5 or 10 have never bothered to install Signal, Telegram, SimpleX, Threema, Briar, Jami, etc that I am on.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Where I am the situation is flipped: I get infinite SMS, but have to pay for data i.e pay per message on RCS.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 17 points 7 months ago

So basically what everyone predicted when Apple said it would occur in 2024.

Major new features are always in the n.0.0 fall releases. No way this was going to be bundled with a late in life iOS 17 bug and security update.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 7 months ago (7 children)

Apple is not at all dominant outside the USA

Depends on the country. iOS has over 50% of the mobile market in more nations than you might realize. This is especially true for English speaking countries.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/iphone-market-share-by-country

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago (1 children)

North Korea going over 80% on ios share was something unexpected.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago

Probably at least 5 iPhones.

load more comments (6 replies)
[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

"Fall of 20xx" is when Apple usually releases new versions of iOS, so it wouldn't be a stretch to assume that iOS18 will be the release.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago (3 children)

So is this going to be standard RCS, which has no encryption and the telcos need to support, or the Googlified version that does E2E encryption but requires storing keys on Google’s servers?

RCS has interoperability issues itself and Google hasn’t been making the situation better.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Apple is apparently working on getting encryption added to the standard

In a background briefing with reporters, Apple spokespeople touted the company's recent announcement that it will support the RCS messaging standard for iMessage sometime during 2024. In order to attend Apple's briefing and view a background document, we had to agree to paraphrase the company's remarks instead of quoting them directly.

Apple clarified that it is not implementing RCS as it exists today because it doesn't believe the standard offers enough privacy and security. Apple said it is working with a standards body—this is likely a reference to the GSMA—to ensure that the version of RCS it eventually implements will support encryption and strong privacy and security.

Apple said that once it adopts RCS, iPhone and non-iPhone users will be able to exchange messages with higher-resolution photos and videos, and will experience improved group texting. Apple said it hasn't brought its own message app to non-Apple devices because the user experience wouldn't meet the company's standards and that it cannot ensure that a third-party device's encryption and authentication are secure enough.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago (1 children)

But will they fix my Pixel 8 just missing and failing to send RCS messages?

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Then:
Being left behind because you don't use Apple approved device, operating system and proprietary app.

Now:
Being left behind because you don't use Apple or Google approved device, operating system and proprietary app.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago (7 children)

RCS should not really be a proprietary app in the sense of a 3rd part installable app. It is normally carrier provided just like SMS works. On Apple the default SMS/Messenger is Apple's Messages app. On Pixel that is Google Messages and on Samsung phones they have their own one. It has a carrier hook and is apparently tied to the number.

load more comments (7 replies)
[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago

Love the bottom line in the posting title. Thank you.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

ITT: Americans talking about bubble colours and the rest of the world going "just use Telegram, Signal or Whatsapp like the rest of us"?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago

Not as simple as that as many did ditch WahtsApp for Meta's documented privacy violations, and their ongoing T&C which passes the WhatsApp metadata upstream to Meta and others. A lot of people also only use one messenger, and right now nothing connects them together yet. So I have masses of family and friends that only use WhatsApp, and I now only have SMS contact with them. About 8% to 10% do have multiple messengers so I see some on Signal and Telegram.

The last thing the world needs, is for WhatsApp to become the default dominant standard. That is a company that can be least trusted out of everyone worldwide, based on their history. With the app installed, the metadata includes constant location, usage, contacts, messages to who, etc.

load more comments
view more: next ›